Posted By EMc2
I guess this is like asking how long is a piece of string, but we have recently asked local H&S consultants to tender for a risk assessment / policy development contract (5 days work initally - then 1day / month thereafter for minimum of 2 years). The daily rate for all proposals receieved so far have been been within a range of £15 !!

Since we have not sought consultancy advice prior to this - we do not know whether the firms are competitive of part of a cartel !!

What are the typical range of work - daily rate for a consultant? Any offers?

3 of the 4 who have quoted are CMIOSH - the other is FIOSH & MIISRSM (this one was not the most expensive!!)

Posted By Merv Newman
I thought the usual going rate in the UK was somewhere around £600. If you are not looking for a specialist, but rather an all-round everyday H&S consultant then I think somewhere between £450 and £600 would be ok.

Some go a lot higher, some a lot lower. The former may not get as much work as they would like but do ok anyway. The latter might get a lot of work but many find it hard to make a decent living.

Merv

Posted By GJB
The Vendetta about people earning good money continues, eh?

So what if people have contacted direct?... Is it a crime?

I know us 'Bad guys' have been stopped from posting on this OSHy forum, but what has it got to do with anybody else if they want to e.mail direct??

I have some constructive advice, money-saving ideas and constructive commenets to make, should anyone want to e.mail me direct!

Posted By Christian
from my experience most consultants pitch themselves at £450-660, but this is because they aren't very effective at selling their services, and so work their prices at being able to sell only c50-60% of their days.

if you can sell 4 out of 5 days then i dont see why you couldnt charge £350-£425 and still make good margins, particularly with retained mid/long term clients.

in short, how many days a year are you able to sell, and what are you breakeven costs -this should determine your price, forget the market.

why not invest in some masic or intermediate sales training, 3-5 days, probably costs less than most training courses, and might pay dividents all round -most consultants think they can sell but cant (mind you, most sales people think they can sell too, and many are deluded too!)

just a thought!

regards
chris

Posted By Ashley Wood
EMc2, interesting reading regarding rates. I see a similar diversity within the fire consultancy market. I have been 'out bid' by fire consultants that charge £25-100 per day. The way I look at this is so, what would you expect to pay for a plumber, electrician, carpenter? If the going rate was £230 per day you would be a little nervous letting someone come to your home for £25! But people do and then moan when the work takes 5 times longer or they pay through the nose for something else, or worse, the jobs botched! Why then do people pay these ridiculous fees for people that are supposed to be selling on there years of experience and knowledge, especially when it involves 'life safety'?

I have 28 years experience as a fire consultant and I expect a daily wage that reflects my level of commitment and knowledge. I also have PI insurance that has to be paid for and a car and office to run. When I am looking at my fees I take into account the scale of the task, duration (both on site and in office), location, volume. When I have done this my fee could be as little as £150 upto £3000 +. I have recently carried out fire risk assessments for a chain of shops for as little as £85 per site, ok they are all in central London so I could do many in a day, but this is part of the fee calculation process. Incidentally, I have friends in the insurance H&S risk management business who charge £850-1000 per day (now that's a lot of good plumbers)!

Posted By anon1234
rates clearly depend on what you are looking for and in my experience have ranged from £200 - £1500 per day.

you also need to consider how 'all inclusive' the rate is - most consultants will I expect also want expenses on top but may also charge for other items

Posted By Is Kismet
Dave, care to let us know what your problem is with consultants? Might be interesting for all of us to hear your views.

Not sure of your accuracy though, I still need to talk to my accountant about free membership of IOSH :-))). In between taking the wheelbarrow full of cash to the bank each week.

Posted By Salus
I would have thought that you need to assess the consultants the same as you would any contractor,

1.what are there qaulifications
2.how long have they been doing this type of work
3.have they insurance
4.get references
etc; you then choose the one you think is best

Posted By Merv Newman
I'll repeat here some of the stuff I included in an off-thread reply :

Some H&S consultants cost up to £5000 per day. Maybe beyond. I was a salaried consultant up to 1992 and "my" fee, at that time was £3000 per day plus expenses. (my actual salary was about £3000 a month) and I worked virtually 200 days per year.

So I went "independant" at £500 per day, reckoning on 100 paid days per year : £50 000. It seemed to work about right.

Then I got the offer of a contract I reallyreally didn't want to do : safety training of mining managers in north africa. So I quoted a ridiculously high figure. (double) And they took it !

Thereafter I quoted the same rate to all new clients. And they took it ! Factor in inflation over the past ten years and you can figure where we are now.

This continues to astonish me. How can I be worth that much to a client ? (my wife just giggles. Or is that gurgles ?)

But then, if you stay with them for a good while someone (an accountant usually) will eventually calculate the cost/benefit ratio. Over a couple of years it usually comes out at about 1 to 10 (the "1" being how much they have paid you over the years)

So they tell their friends. (including how much you charge)

Market forces dictate the day rates. As well as experience/qualifications of the consultant. Hearsay is also a big factor.

Now, a couple of replies to others on this thread :

* I see nothing wrong with approaching people "off-forum" if there is a chance of business. I've not done it but have received some work from others who have obtained my e-mail address from here.

* Juniors at full fee : I hate it. A few years ago the building where we have our office caught fire. Lots of smoke and water damage, no-one hurt. An "insurance negotiator" came around and offered to "negotiate" with our insurance company. As I had no time to do it myself I took it. And he sent a junior to do the job. I was "upset" ! But he actually did a fairly decent job and we came out of it OK. But I still don't like the idea. Seems dishonest.

* We would not employ a "junior" No-one else here is IOSH but they all have, I think, fairly decent credentials (Sarah has a masters in industrial psychology, Didier is a qualified ISO 9000 and 14000 auditor, Loz has a bachelors in H&S, Wilhelm is a Dr Ing, Philippe has a masters in Nuclear Physics (he does the contaminated site clean-ups) Corinne (secretary) is a tri-athlete. So is her boyfriend. Hands off !

But we do a fair bit of "mentoring" But the very word means that they do not go out on their own.

Final thought : I think the UK H&S consultant market is supersaturated. Too many qualified/unqualified consultants out there all competing for the same business

Quote : "What do you do for a living ? I'm a safety consultant. Oh really, when did you get made redundant ?" unquote

So, prices go down. However (and I am very plesaed to say this despite the bonkersconkers and 'cos itselfansafety) H&S is nowadays very much more in the public consciousness. So more demand, and prices go up.

Merv (damn. I think I've just missed Countdown)

Posted By David S Burt
I was sent this yesterday and thought of this forum:

“one of the largest M&E subcontractors in the UK . …… currently looking for a contract Senior SHEQ Manager to head up a project ……………. will head up a team of 4 Health, Safety and Quality advisors and auditors and will be responsible for managing their activities as well as being hands-on yourself. ….
Experience, Knowledge, Qualifications and Training:
- Minimum 10 years multi-disciplinary construction industry experience, with proven management ability.
- Professionally Qualified - IQA Quality Management
- Ideally MIOSH qualified but candidates working towards MIOSH status will be considered.
- Experience of SHEQ management on major projects.
- Good communication skills.
- Membership of IQA ( Institute of Quality Assurance) and IOSH (Institution of Occupational Health and Safety
- Educated to degree level desirable
- Familiarity with rail and/or tunnels systems and installations.
- Familiarity with Railtrack and/or LUL work planning and access arrangements.

up to £250 per day for an experienced SHEQ Manager contract”.

Now who thinks that consultants are overpaid? I replied to the person who sent me this position and told them that the rate was professionally insulting

I have spent more years (yes years not days) than I care to remember becoming a more competent Chartered person in Health, Safety, Quality & Environmental Matters. Yes I feel like Dave that there are a lot of so called ‘consultants’ out there who I would not trust with my garden shed. However they are still charging rates well in excess of the rate quoted above (only by 200%).

Perhaps I have had it wrong and the key is to deceive Clients and relieve them of vast sums of money.

PS If you want to know about the above position don’t bother to contact me

Posted By Christian
i agree
from my work with the insurance broker market, most of their sales force have little or no real understanding of 'elf n safety, and simply want to push an insurance backed product onto their clients, particularly the under 50 employee ones.

when i looked at the consultancy, and asked how they could possibly offer a retained H&S service at the cost (£750 a year), i noticed that they recruited "H&S Professional" for £20k a year, minimum qualification required NEBOSH cert.

now, i've got a NEBOSH cert (distinction no less) but i'd be damned if i thought that i could charge for my advice - sadly it appears that i;m in the minority, and we should all take note that "Health & Safety Light" is in great danger of damaging the hard work that many safety practitioners have and continue to achieve in this worthwile and much maligned field

same rioja, different thread!

Posted By DJ
When you compare H&S consultants rates with those of other professionals (e.g. solicitors, whose charge out rates range from £125 - £400 per hour) you reall do see the difference.

DJ

Posted By Steve Derby
I have been approached by a couple of small local businesses to carry out some work (mostly related to tenders). I feel able to do the work and am just setting up a business though which to do it. This thread has been really useful as a guide to charges, but I have a question. Should I charge a retainer if these businesses wish to name me as their sourse of competent advice?