Posted By Alan Woodage I would like to canvass opinion and any info to help my decision or implementation of a card based warning / disciplinary procedure. Tried education, behavioural safety I could write books on and still peoples attitudes are poor so now is the time for carrot and stick. Can anyone give me there opinions and or any info / details of schemes and success / failure story's. Thanks in advance for your help.

Posted By Jeffrey Watt Kieran Just in case others as well as me are picking your post up the wrong way but I am not sure if you are getting philosophical or having a go at Alan. Can you elaborate for the hard of thinking, like watt I am. Jeffers

Posted By Kieran J Duignan Jeffrey .... no intention to 'have a go' at anyone. Simply observing that, as you infer, there is a similar underlying 'philosophy' in both approaches. As you imply, there's an unavoidable 'philosophy' in every approach to health and safety at work, whether those involved chose to think about it explicitly or otherwise. Some of the avoidable difficulties arise from 'philosophical' i.e. linguistic, matters that can be relatively easily resolved, as in the case of 'behavioural' safety, where failure to crystallise what's involved too often results in lapsed programmes that might well have been fruitful.

Posted By Jonathan Breeze I'll have a go at interpreting then! I think that what Kieran is saying is that the philosophy behind a Red Card System is intrinsically flawed. If you are punishing for misbehaviour without rewarding for good behaviour, then you are likely to drive unsafe practices underground, where they will be harder to deal with. Therefore a Red card system is also doomed to failure. Is that a fair interpretation? There was a similar thread a few months back which covered the pro's and cons: http://www.iosh.co.uk/in...iew&forum=1&thread=20917

Posted By James Perry Can I suggest, on balance, some sort of Positive Criticism. Add a Green card and celebrate those individuals seen as shining example of good practice (not just those wearing every piece of PPE ever issued). You could also invite them to a meeting (with their manager). Explain what you have seen and what they have done correctly. Then, when they're expecting the usual "but.." and the stick, tell then "Well done" and "Keep it up". The confused look on their face will be priceless, but it will reinforce the message.

Posted By Manny If we were to introduce a card system (lord forbid) then I would like to think that the workforce (perhaps even a couple of the offenders) would also have the oportunity to hand out cards. If I look around some of our workplaces a lot of bad practice actualy stems from the management.

Posted By Alan Woodage Thanks for the input so far, my thoughts are not solely on punishing bad behaviour (stick) but also creditting good behaviour (carrot). Directors are willing to fund rewards to a healthy level as we are a very committed company. All the guy's have been through several BBS programmes and in my experience this works well in a controlled environment, to clarify controlled- where everybody is following the same programme and has the same values and standards. We are now in a different environment where we are working alongside other contractors who are not of the same mindset, shall we say, to be pc. Our guy's are now regressing back to old habits and adopting the attitude of " well they don't do it so why should we" Also as this work is Nights there are less management / client staff around to re-inforce practices and people are getting away with things. In summary the culture is appaling but it's been like it for many years and this particular sector of the construction industry is years behind the majority in my opinion. Without reading the thoughts of several accademics and applying some simple human thinking. We are all guilty of speeding on the roads at one time or another and I will admit that freely but the only time people abide by the speed limit is when there is a member of the constabulary near or a Gatso roadside money box. If there is no punishment or record of ones errors then we all push the envelope until something detrimental puts our feet back on the ground.

Posted By Merv Newman I could go with the green card for safe behaviour. Except that you have to clearly define what sort of behaviors merits a card. And what will happen as a consequence. On the "reward" bit. Management don't really have to commit to a large budget. It's the sentiment that counts. I have, somewhere in the office draw a maglite torch. cost about £5 and I have never used it. Prize to each member of a group who met their (self-set) behavioural target (safe behaviours are mainly self-set too) Management and contractor behaviours in the group's area are also included in the group score. + or - back to the point : That £5 torch has no value to me. Waste of money. (not mine) On my key-ring I have a token which can be used to unlock a supermarket trolley. Return the trolley to get your token back. It cost maybe 10p I use it at least once a week. And everytime I use it I remember the great bunch of safety guys who presented it to me at the end of a hard day's training. And that was 18 months ago. Beyond price. (like the look on Chirac's face when he heard who got the olympic games) Basic rules for me are that the gift, or token if you like is presented to individuals by a senior manager with his thanks for having done a great job ! And it is something which will be used regularly. I hate the "winner takes all" big prize. Some years ago the nearby Peugeot plant (25 000 employees) had a safety competition. First prize was a 305 (?) One winner, 24 999 losers. I'm also against "safety" items - first aid box, fire blanket, fire extinguisher. Each is an item which, you hope, you will never ever have to use. Another "also against" : cash, book tokens or shopping vouchers. They get used very quickly. Once. And there is no lasting memory attached to them. Merv (hotel in Lyon. Room service is offering an "assiette anglaise" (don't ask) nah) And I can do the three syllable words too ! but I quite often spell them wrong

Posted By Richard Altoft A bit off the point perhaps but you need to look at motivation - I heard of an insurance company who gave all their reps new company cars of the latest style etc except they also had one old Citroen 2CV in the fleet. Who ever had an accident in a company car got the 2CV and kept it until the next accident in which case they handed to the new "unsafe" driver (I might say this was regardless of fault and a long time before companies started looking at the safety rating of Co cars when procuring them)Driving from that moment on became "defensive" not aggresive and losses and repairs plimmetted overnight. R R