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Safety cards for disciplinary matters, Red Card Yellow card etc
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Posted By Alan Woodage I would like to canvass opinion and any info to help my decision or implementation of a card based warning / disciplinary procedure. Tried education, behavioural safety I could write books on and still peoples attitudes are poor so now is the time for carrot and stick. Can anyone give me there opinions and or any info / details of schemes and success / failure story's. Thanks in advance for your help.
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan Alan
From what you've written, the concept of coloured cards is similar another variant of behavioural safety, in which you replace your subjective judgement with objective statistical measures.
To adapt an old adage, the fault is not in the cards, dear Alan, but in what you're about.
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt Kieran
Just in case others as well as me are picking your post up the wrong way but I am not sure if you are getting philosophical or having a go at Alan. Can you elaborate for the hard of thinking, like watt I am.
Jeffers
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt Carrot and stick
Step1. Locate carrot in breech.
Step 2. Ram home with stick.
Step 3. Fire!
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan Jeffrey
.... no intention to 'have a go' at anyone.
Simply observing that, as you infer, there is a similar underlying 'philosophy' in both approaches.
As you imply, there's an unavoidable 'philosophy' in every approach to health and safety at work, whether those involved chose to think about it explicitly or otherwise.
Some of the avoidable difficulties arise from 'philosophical' i.e. linguistic, matters that can be relatively easily resolved, as in the case of 'behavioural' safety, where failure to crystallise what's involved too often results in lapsed programmes that might well have been fruitful.
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Posted By Manny Kieran, you have just lost me as well. When is the next course on using words of more than two syllables?
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze I'll have a go at interpreting then! I think that what Kieran is saying is that the philosophy behind a Red Card System is intrinsically flawed. If you are punishing for misbehaviour without rewarding for good behaviour, then you are likely to drive unsafe practices underground, where they will be harder to deal with. Therefore a Red card system is also doomed to failure. Is that a fair interpretation? There was a similar thread a few months back which covered the pro's and cons: http://www.iosh.co.uk/in...iew&forum=1&thread=20917
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Posted By Catman Hi Alan
I have used this twice, in heavy manufacturing & construction.
The key for me was involvement, we gave all supervisors and safety committe members red and yellow card authority, myself or the factory(site) manager would then follow up as appropriate.
Cards were seldom followed up by disciplinary action but records of numbers of card issued were on the noticeboard YTD every month.
In the beginning there was a kind of 'fifth columnist' attitude towards those with the cards who worked on the shop floor, but by showing that we were not kidding and would not accept unsafe behaviour, the scheme was effective.
My opinion in general? It is horses for courses, in other roles I would not have used the same scheme, as it would not have helped the culture.
I am a fan of looking at health and safety as a balance in the workplace as we cannot become only policemen, we must be part of the management team, trying to ensure things get done safely.
However
In the red and yellow card cases we decided to swing the pendulum past the centre of balance and become over cautious at the expense of production for a time, to demonstrate to the workforce the importance of safety, when the guys on the floor start giving the managers a row, I find that is a sign that we are getting somewhere.
It is easy to talk about 'no blame' and other theoretical safety ideas on here and I have seen them working in some cases, but on the shop floor (as you will know)you are dealing with personalities, money, production, old attitudes, existing cultures, old buildings etc and you must be open to doing whatever it takes to turn it round.
Good Luck TW
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Posted By James Perry Can I suggest, on balance, some sort of Positive Criticism. Add a Green card and celebrate those individuals seen as shining example of good practice (not just those wearing every piece of PPE ever issued).
You could also invite them to a meeting (with their manager). Explain what you have seen and what they have done correctly.
Then, when they're expecting the usual "but.." and the stick, tell then "Well done" and "Keep it up".
The confused look on their face will be priceless, but it will reinforce the message.
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt Thanks Kieran for the update.
Still confused though...Mungo do safety.
JW
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Posted By Manny If we were to introduce a card system (lord forbid) then I would like to think that the workforce (perhaps even a couple of the offenders) would also have the oportunity to hand out cards. If I look around some of our workplaces a lot of bad practice actualy stems from the management.
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt Alan
A colleague used this to effect.
Boss bought £20 of lotto lines every week. If you were seen doing something wrong by a supervisor e.g.unsafe practice/PPE not on etc you were out of the lotto draw for that week.
People can identify with the fun of a lotto syndicate and don't want to miss out. Plus they don't want to be the divvy who didn't get a share when all their mates did, imagine the stick they would take.
Jeff
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Posted By Alan Woodage Thanks for the input so far, my thoughts are not solely on punishing bad behaviour (stick) but also creditting good behaviour (carrot). Directors are willing to fund rewards to a healthy level as we are a very committed company. All the guy's have been through several BBS programmes and in my experience this works well in a controlled environment, to clarify controlled- where everybody is following the same programme and has the same values and standards. We are now in a different environment where we are working alongside other contractors who are not of the same mindset, shall we say, to be pc. Our guy's are now regressing back to old habits and adopting the attitude of " well they don't do it so why should we" Also as this work is Nights there are less management / client staff around to re-inforce practices and people are getting away with things. In summary the culture is appaling but it's been like it for many years and this particular sector of the construction industry is years behind the majority in my opinion.
Without reading the thoughts of several accademics and applying some simple human thinking. We are all guilty of speeding on the roads at one time or another and I will admit that freely but the only time people abide by the speed limit is when there is a member of the constabulary near or a Gatso roadside money box. If there is no punishment or record of ones errors then we all push the envelope until something detrimental puts our feet back on the ground.
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan Alan
In the 'appalling' circumstances you sketch, to what extent,if any, would the US-style voluntary protection programme be supported by senior management in your firm?
The VPP is designed by the OHSA to acknowledge publicly those employers who consistently comply with their statutory responsibilities for H&S, to high standards. Oddly, it's only in the area of 'stress management, that the HSE has a comparable process (and the uptake for that appears to be relatively modest), judging by the HSE's reliance on the BPS and the CIPD to provide leverage.
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Posted By Merv Newman I could go with the green card for safe behaviour. Except that you have to clearly define what sort of behaviors merits a card. And what will happen as a consequence.
On the "reward" bit. Management don't really have to commit to a large budget. It's the sentiment that counts.
I have, somewhere in the office draw a maglite torch. cost about £5 and I have never used it. Prize to each member of a group who met their (self-set) behavioural target (safe behaviours are mainly self-set too) Management and contractor behaviours in the group's area are also included in the group score. + or -
back to the point : That £5 torch has no value to me. Waste of money. (not mine)
On my key-ring I have a token which can be used to unlock a supermarket trolley. Return the trolley to get your token back. It cost maybe 10p
I use it at least once a week. And everytime I use it I remember the great bunch of safety guys who presented it to me at the end of a hard day's training. And that was 18 months ago.
Beyond price. (like the look on Chirac's face when he heard who got the olympic games)
Basic rules for me are that the gift, or token if you like is presented to individuals by a senior manager with his thanks for having done a great job ! And it is something which will be used regularly.
I hate the "winner takes all" big prize. Some years ago the nearby Peugeot plant (25 000 employees) had a safety competition. First prize was a 305 (?) One winner, 24 999 losers.
I'm also against "safety" items - first aid box, fire blanket, fire extinguisher. Each is an item which, you hope, you will never ever have to use.
Another "also against" : cash, book tokens or shopping vouchers. They get used very quickly. Once. And there is no lasting memory attached to them.
Merv (hotel in Lyon. Room service is offering an "assiette anglaise" (don't ask) nah)
And I can do the three syllable words too ! but I quite often spell them wrong
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Posted By ARB Got to agree with all the above that positive re-inforcement is absolutely necessary. It really depends on finding out what motivates the group to show enthusiasm for something.
Working in a warehouse that had 12 forklifts, all of the drivers were almost equally experienced and had the same training, pay and conditions. There were no pedestrian but collisions with and dropping stock was still a problem.
When we got 6 shiney new trucks every driver wanted to use those and so we selected who go those on who had had longest since a collsion or drop. Those that had them took extra care to keep them, the others tried soo hard to drive safely and get them it was almost painful to watch. As the very, very occasional incident occured, a driver was 'demoted' and another 'promoted'.
Cost in 'prizes' = £0.
Effect = drop in collisions/dropping to 1 per year last year.
We just found that driving a shiney, not old style, forklift truck was a motivator.
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Posted By Richard Altoft A bit off the point perhaps but you need to look at motivation - I heard of an insurance company who gave all their reps new company cars of the latest style etc except they also had one old Citroen 2CV in the fleet. Who ever had an accident in a company car got the 2CV and kept it until the next accident in which case they handed to the new "unsafe" driver (I might say this was regardless of fault and a long time before companies started looking at the safety rating of Co cars when procuring them)Driving from that moment on became "defensive" not aggresive and losses and repairs plimmetted overnight. R R
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