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#1 Posted : 29 September 2006 12:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara Purely fictional of course, but what would you do if you were this employee?? Employee has a serious injury when using strimmer at work – metal splinter from blade penetrates chest wall and embeds in muscle. At hospital doctors say they cannot remove metal as its too deep and removing it will just cause infection. Employee given very strong painkillers and antibiotics and is off work for 3 ½ months in a lot of pain. Also during this time has to return to hospital and spend a night there on a drip (stronger antibiotics). The employee was wearing all the PPE they had been supplied with – only a face visor and uniform (a T-shirt and Trousers). Was trained in use of strimmer and was following company procedures. An incident form was filled in on the day of the incident. What would you do now??
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#2 Posted : 29 September 2006 12:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jack Speak to a solicitor (or the Trade Union if the employee is a member). The Employers Liabilitry (Defective Equipment) Act may be relevant.
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#3 Posted : 29 September 2006 13:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara What if a solicitor has been spoken to and has said that the company are not to blame as they had supplied what they had thought was sufficient PPE? Also the same accident has happened to at least 3 other employees? Would you suggest speaking to a different solicitor then? This is obviously serious and I cannot understand how the employers are not in some way to blame.
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#4 Posted : 29 September 2006 13:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By anon1234 clearly if the same incident had happened on 3 previous occasions then it was reasonably foreseeable and the existing control measures are clearly inadequate especially considering the severity of the incident - I would suggest that the solictor is not a specialist in this type of claim
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#5 Posted : 29 September 2006 13:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara Perhaps blame was the wrong word to use, don't think we should be 'Blaming anyone' but the employers are responsible for providing and maintaining plant and systems of work that are safe and without risks to health.
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#6 Posted : 29 September 2006 13:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara Thanks anon that's what I was thinking.
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#7 Posted : 29 September 2006 13:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By steve_s Cara I don't think employers can provide plant and systems that are 'without risk' - 'freak' accidents can happen, and do happen. When you say that the accident has happened three times, are you saying that there are three people with metal bits stuck in their chests?
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#8 Posted : 29 September 2006 13:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Philip McAleenan Cara, Blame and liability are two different concepts and in legal terms liable means that the employer has a legal obligation for the safety and welfare of the employee. Blame on the other hand means that, if applied to the incident itself, they are responsible for the incident occurring. Therefore it is possible to be liable without necessarily being at the same time blameworthy. Now, the extent of liability, particularly in relation to the degree of culpability depends on the circumstances of the case. Having described the incident as having occurred to at least three other employers you are now into the realm of not being able to claim that the incident was unforeseeable and that all reasonable controls had been taken. In these circumstances it would not be hard to find that the employer is culpable to a reckless degree, as he has repeatedly instructed workers to carry out an activity knowing that it will result in severe injuries. If your situation is other than fictional, it is time to immediately cease the work activity until it has been ascertained how the accident occurs and what controls need to be in place to prevent the generation of flying splinters (and not simply to protect against them). Regards, Philip
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#9 Posted : 29 September 2006 13:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara I stated employers duties as mentioned in HASAWA, but yes I know freak accidents can and do happen but 4 times??? One guy the metal went into his upper arm, another’s leg and the worst into someone’s neck. Don't want to say too much as it may become too obvious! I just can't get over the fact that the company are denying all liability - it shocks me!
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#10 Posted : 29 September 2006 13:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By steve_s I suppose nowadays it's a natural reaction to think "speak to a solicitor' and get lots of money. What they should be doing is speaking to the enforcing authority and getting the activity stopped.
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#11 Posted : 29 September 2006 13:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara I know it is but I can honestly say my real concerns are for the poor people who might not be so lucky next time!
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#12 Posted : 29 September 2006 13:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By steve_s So how is speaking to a solicitor going to help? Don't you think it would be better to speak to the enforcing authority?
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#13 Posted : 29 September 2006 13:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara Yes I agree with you - Who would it be in this case? HSE or specific to the sector of work?
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#14 Posted : 29 September 2006 14:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Mac Carthy Cara What caused the metal splinters from the strimmer! (Metal clearing blade against concrete or a harder metal) Were the machines themselves guared and at what angle were they being used? The manufacturers will have a maximum angle for use and clearly stipulate the types of guarding required. Have you made the above enquiry to the manufacturers. Also worth noting, I presume your company has completed a risk assessment and amended the control measures following each incident and have some means to verify this has been monitored? Also worth considering drugs/alcohol testing. I've worked in a similar industry for years and am surprised to read your forum discussion. You also say the training has been conducted, is it by a body such as the NPTC or only internal. The NPTC provide training, see the attached link: http://www.nptc.org.uk/t...iders/detail.asp?dsid=35 PS - also sounds like a very poor solicitor, what do your loss adjusters/insurers have to say.
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#15 Posted : 29 September 2006 14:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara I don't work for the company, I'm just enquiring on behalf of a friend this happened to, so I don't really think I should be contacting the manufacturers. The strimmer did have guarding but I don't know what angle sorry. It is unknown what caused the blade to break - it was being used for cutting grass so I guess could have been a stone or something? I know a risk assessment was completed but doubt very much whether it was amended after each incident! Thats worth looking into - thanks for that!! Using the strimmer is not the main work (so not that sort of industry). The company do carry out Drug/Alcohol testing but I know the victim of the accident - this isn't an issue in the case!
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#16 Posted : 29 September 2006 15:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mike Herbert I'm sorry!! The hospital wouldn't remove the shrapnel in case of infection? And then they get antibiotics for presumably an infection? Yikes.. i would not like to visit that hospital. Presumably the other incidents required some sort of hospital visit also. Would this not then require reporting as RIDDOR. I assume LA or HSE are not following these up for it to happen again or the employer is somehow managing to sweep this under the carpet. Obviously the employer is severely lacking in his duty of care. I would have thought that any solicitor with half a brain could win this case. Fictional or otherwise i find this depressing. I hope your friend makes a full recovery and suitable recompense for his lost earnings
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#17 Posted : 29 September 2006 15:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara Yep antibiotics for infection yet wouldn't open would in case of infection! Its ridiculous isn’t it! My friend has made a good recovery, but even after all these months still has the odd twinge in the chest if lifting anything heavy etc. I have been pushing him to stand up for himself for sometime but he it too scared of loosing his job – even though I have stressed that the company cannot do this! They can’t can they?? He’s worried that they will make things difficult for him if he makes an issue of things! This is what drives me mad – there are people who are quick to claim for negligible or false even injuries, yet someone who has a serious injury (could easily have been life threatening) is too scared!!
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#18 Posted : 29 September 2006 16:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Mathews Cara Scared of loosing his job? Worried that company might make things difficult for him? I would say that by their negligence they have already made things difficult for him and if it were me I would be scared of keeping the job and probably loosing my life as a result. I agree with Mike Herbert here any solicitor with half a brain should win this one, but that is not enough. 1. Inform the enforcing authority (either HSE or LA). 2. Find a solicitor who knows what they are talking about. 3. Get out of this company while he is still alive! Richard
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#19 Posted : 30 September 2006 09:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Raymond Rapp I would be interested to learn the source of the metal splinter. Was it from the strimmer itself, or due to contact with an external body? The reason, because if the injury(s) resulted from any fault of the equipment, a claim could be brought against the employer under the MHSW Regs. Where there is an abolute duty to ensure equipment is fit for use, as in X v Post Office. Ray
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#20 Posted : 30 September 2006 10:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Raymond Rapp Ignore previous quote: AET Stark v Post Office (1999) brought under PUWER 1992, Regulation 6(1.)
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#21 Posted : 02 October 2006 09:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara The splinter was actually from the strimmer blade - Strimmer examined after incident and there was clearly a small piece missing.
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#22 Posted : 02 October 2006 10:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By andymak Time to stop the work taking place until it has been looked at more closely. Reassess the activiy in the light of known incidents. Consider replacing metal blades with plastic line or blades. Reassess PPE requirements. If all else fails a covert call to the HSE to prompt a full investigation may be in order.
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#23 Posted : 02 October 2006 11:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By holmezy Cara, I've read , with interest, the responses so far, and agreed with most comments. You say that the incident should or was reported under RIDDOR, I would have thought this would be of great interest to the HSE, wether on their own accord or via a covert telephone call. In your opening note you said that appropriate PPE was being worn, then said that jeans and t shirt....doesnt sound like suitable to me, especially as there is a history of this happening. The employee should be protected by law from the company making it "difficult" for him, although reality is prabably different. Either way, if this is allowed to continue, then the next injury may be more serious and how would he feel then, not having persued his case? Its not a matter of who's to blame, think of it as a matter of how to stop it happening again. If the employee is being nonchalent about it, then maybe he needs a little gentle persuasion in ensuring it wont happen again and since he hasnt reviewed RA's etc then perhaps a little enforced monetary outlay will make him realise his responsibilities? Holmezy Sounds like your mate should start looking for a more caring employer
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#24 Posted : 02 October 2006 12:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara Thanks for all your comments/suggestions I really appreciate your advice! It shows that I'm not the only one who thinks this case should be followed up!!
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#25 Posted : 02 October 2006 12:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Young Forget the PPE angle for a minute and concentrate on the strimmer. It seems obvious that this piece of kit is not suitable for the job being done. Appraise the job and decide on equipment that is best suited.
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#26 Posted : 02 October 2006 13:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara Don't forget I do not work for the company - just after advice for a friend who was injured. But for info - according to the awful solicitor the strimmer was fit for use - I don't believe so though!
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#27 Posted : 02 October 2006 20:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By DJ Cara, Although Personal Injury is not my area, if you care to drop me an email at djupnorth@msn.co.uk I will be happy to go through the details with you. Unfortunately, the rules prevent me giving advice in open forum. Regards. DJ
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#28 Posted : 09 October 2006 09:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara DJ I emailed you directly but it failed?! Can you email me at cara.wilson@velindre-tr.wales.nhs.uk Many thanks Cara
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#29 Posted : 27 October 2006 11:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By cara Just a quick update... As hard as I try I cannot get my friend to seek further solicitors advice/ contact HSE etc as you have all kindly advised - have even shown him this page! He is just too scared of being pushed out of his job! Has anyone had a similar experience? So, looks like the company will continue with its malpractice and who knows the next poor guy might not be so lucky!
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#30 Posted : 27 October 2006 13:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Nigel Souster Cara, You obviously have a lot of information regarding these incidents, why not inform the HSE yourself? Regardless of the civil claims side, this company needs to stop this activity. A visit from the HSE armed with information from 4 different incidents would surely give them cause to think. Nigel
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