Posted By Simon Walsh Grad IOSH No the responsible person is the employer or building owner, H & S professionals are the competent person as described by the Order.

Posted By Adrian Watson But only where that failure places one or more relevant persons at risk of death or serious injury in case of fire Art 32. Any person guilty of an offence under paragraph (1)(a) to (d) and (2)(h) is liable— (a) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum; or (b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or to both. Regards Adrian Watson

Posted By Bob Shillabeer Sorry the death penalty is no longer valid. Under Article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights the death penalty was abolished during peace time. This meets with protocol 6 which the UK signed up to on 20 May 1999. This is the same bit that prevents the UK extraditing suspected terrorist to the US (or anywhere else without obtaining agreement that a death penalty will not be sought in any trial that ensues).

Posted By DJ Simon, I agree with you unless the Responsible Person role has been delegated to you under Article 3(b)(i). Control of the premises (as occupier or otherwise) could be achieved by way of a contractual obligation i.e. in a consultancy or maintenance agreement. For example, if you are contracted to ensure the means of alarm, fighting fire or means of escape are provided and/or maintained, you could be regarded as having "control of the premises" in that regard. DJ

Posted By AJM I think you right jay, and i am sick and tired of saying so in various threads and will repeat again now. I have been banging on about this issue since i went to a seminar on the reforms last year and a fire safety managers course at the beginning of this year. To me it is quite obvious that this type of assessment is going down the route similar to the legionella assessments and specialist people required, especially for medium to big size establishments. Both my seminar and fire managers course was taken with the fire brigade and in their opinion and of course this is their opinion. This has not been tested in case law as yet, but in the fire officers opinion the minimum that will be considered would be if the competent person had sat all 5 (3 week) modules of fire training coupled with experience. I myself have an NVQ 4 and 10 years experience but when we paid for the guy to do it and you go round with them you then realize you were not competent. It cost us 400 pounds, but a word of caution check the people that profess to do this as you can get some fly by night people doing it.

Posted By AJM I agree Ray, as I said medium to large size business. With obviously the hazard profile of the company taken into account. All I am saying is I think some people are going to get caught otu with this.

Posted By Raymond Rapp A further thought. I shall be recommending to my company that they should 'promote' a suitable person to be a 'fire champion' and provide them with sufficient training for the task. Who can then assist others if need be. We have about 15 or so safety advisors - no, I will not be volunteering. Ray