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#1 Posted : 18 October 2006 04:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Eddie O'Callaghan
Lead Accident Investigators Course – IIAI

I am presently TECH IOSH working in the rail construction sector.

I have never herd of IIAI and it seems a bit steep at £1165.00 per person plus VAT for a 3 day course?

Opinions please on the usefulness and value of the above course and will it open up other H&S opportunities.
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#2 Posted : 18 October 2006 19:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By David S Burt
HSG245 ‘Investigating accidents and incidents is considerably cheaper but will it give membership of the Institute of Industrial Accident Investigators- an organisation formed in 1998?

I had the same invite and promptly put it in the bin. As for the IIAI they do have an interesting web site which in my humble opinion tells you nothing- not even the fee’s!
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#3 Posted : 10 November 2006 21:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Langston
Have you considered the IOSH accident Investigation course. This can be run either in-house or delegates can attend the Grange. Contact IOSH PD Dept. for more details 0116 257 3100 - Zoe Whitehead.


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#4 Posted : 11 November 2006 13:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
The course suggested by Ian is a great course, full of useful info and techniques not just for accident investigation but also for other things such as audit interviews using themeing give it a look and see its in this years IOSH training brochure.
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#5 Posted : 24 November 2006 17:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andrew Brown
I have just completed the Lead Accident Investigators Course. Like yourselves I had not heard of the IIAI or the RDC until recently although a little googling suggests that they are predominantly a research organisation and not a training company.

As a former HSE Inspector accident investigation is an area of particular interest to me and I have had plenty of training and experience in the past. However I haven’t had any training since I left HSE so I was interested to see what was on offer on the other side of the fence and I need the CPD points like everyone else. I picked this course as I thought it offered an investigators toolkit and methodology but underpinned the practical with the academic theory.

The trainer, Paul Difford, is excellent and whilst he is teaching from the IIAI syllabus he also manages to share his years of experience of the investigation process. All the key skills I think an investigator needs were covered together with a grounding in all the underpinning academic theory on human error, human behaviour and causal analysis.

Whilst the IIAI may not be well known I think they are a credible force in this niche area of safety. The course is examined and therefore offers those who attend a means of demonstrating their competence in this area. Also the institute provides a useful set of contacts for investigators needing support.

I passed the exam and expect to be sending in my membership fee for the IIAI soon. My opinion on cost is that the course is good value. I understand part of the fee supports the research of the IIAI as well.

I cannot comment or compare to the 2 or 4 day IOSH courses as I haven’t been on either.
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#6 Posted : 25 November 2006 17:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Langston
Competence in accident investigation.

Competence in accident investigation is an interesting notion. It would be highly suspect to consider competence as being linked to passing an examination.

One issue is very important however and that is the continuing development of the criteria that relates to competence. Do we mean competence in one field, or one country, in England and Wales or indeed internationally?

Let’s just keep this to England and Wales. Investigation today requires safety professionals to wear two distinct but firmly linked hats. There is the hat associated with the identification of underlying risk factors (underlying causes) and then there is also the requirement to understand and use correct evidence gathering techniques. The later is also complicated as it will require an understanding of the rules of evidence, the ECHR, PACE and how these interact with HASWA.

Surely this is the realm of the legal profession: or is it? The problem will come when a safety professional has to make a decision without recourse to legal advice.

This is a very complex area and I doubt if there is any course that exists in the UK that provides all the answers, I include my own here. What is absolutely certain, a sound knowledge of the law is essential before investigations commence and this can not always the case.

I would say that before any course is considered it would be prudent to consider this point.
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#7 Posted : 27 November 2006 12:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andrew Brown
Couldn't agree with you more Ian.

Part of my definition of competence though is knowing ones limitations and when to seek further advice. Most good training therefore imparts a degree of knowledge and hopefully some wisdom on when and how to apply it.

I was not intending to infer that passing the examination therefore equals competence and i should clarify. Like any course this is only Training, Experience is also required for competence. I meant it more in the general sense that we all undertake training as part of our CPD and we register for CPD in part as a means of demonstrating our competence as safety professionals.

As i understand it IOSH attaches more CPD points to assessed or examined courses than those without, presumably because passing the assessed course shows the attendee was awake through out and understood something.

Again I agree their are significant issues of safety professionals conducting investigations and potentially increasing their employer / clients liability to and from criminal or civil action. A source of good professional legal advice will often therfore be required. However there are many H&S Pros investigating already on behalf of their clients or employers and this course will potentially assist them to do a better job.
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