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Posted By Jeepster
As most of us use petrol and diesel which is freely available. Why do petrol stations not have to display the COSHH symbols on the pumps or supply you with a MSDS?
As I see it, between the incredible flammability and carcinogenic issues this could be the most hazardous material people come into contact with on a weekly basis, but no safety information is ever posted?
The major constituent of petrol is benzene amongst the rich cocktail of other nastys and Benzene according to EH40 has an exposure limit of 1ppm due to its carcinogenic properties. (that is equivilent to 1mm in a kilometre if you cannot get your head round parts per million!)
Am I alone in thinking this is wrong and people take fuel safety for granted due to familiarity?
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Posted By Tony Brunskill
A lot of petrol stations do display the appropriate signs. (And a few inappropriate ones). Have you considered what your exposure is against exposure standards?
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Posted By B Smart
Hi Jeepster,
I think you'll find the information that you need in one of the following:
L 133 Unloading Petrol from Road Tankers - Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002 - Approved Code of Practice and Guidance
IND(G)216L Dispensing Petrol as a Fuel - Health and Safety Guidance for Employees
INDG 331 Safe Use of Petrol in Garages
SI 1996/2678 Environmental Protection - The Environmental Protection (Prescribed Processes and Substances Etc.)(Amendment)(Petrol Vapour Recovery) Regulations 1996
NIPG 1/14 (Ver 2) Process Guidance Note 1/14: Unloading of Petrol into Storage at Petrol Stations
HS(G)146 Dispensing Petrol - Assessing and Controlling the Risk of Fire and Explosion at Sites where Petrol is Stored and Dispensed as a Fuel
INDG 50 Safe Use of Petrol in Garages
LAC 65/51 HELA Local Authority Circular 65/51: Petrol Filling Stations - Dispensing Control Measures
LAC 65/60 HELA Local Authority Circular 65/60: The Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002 - Petrol Filling Stations - Autogus {Autogas} Installations
IND(G)104L Petrol Filling Stations: Control and safety guidance for employees.
Hope this list helps. You should find some of it on the HSE website
B. Smart
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Posted By Jeepster
Sorry, I may not have made my point clearly.
There is loads of legisalltiona nd aguidance, but this is not reflected in practice. other than a few highly flammable signs.
The issue for me is that thousands of people handle this stuff daily and store it at home for lawnmowers etc. and have no idea that they have a very explosive carciogen.
Why do petrol stations not make it clearer.
Yes it is a low exposure, and yes they provide disposable gloves. but the vast majority of people are unaware of risks to health.
I believe that most people handle the pumps and spills without consideration and there is very little information available at the forecourt.
I think that should change.
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Posted By martin_r
What information, signage, and other information would you like to see at a petrol station.
Do you think there are real health problems caused by petrol stations?
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Posted By Vernon Kay
Petrol stations all display the required signage and information posters. Perhaps try Specsavers
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Posted By Jane Blunt
Less than 1% of petrol is benzene.
While 1 mm is a millionth of a kilometre, this mental image does not translate well into volume measurement.
A concentration of a part per million is what you get if you drop a 5 cm3 medicine spoonful of something into five cubic metres.
This is because there are 100 centimetres in one metre, and it therefore follows that there are one million cubic centimetres in one cubic metre.
Regards
Jane
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Posted By Vernon Kay
1ppm is the equivalent of 1mg of something in a litre of solution.
The point is really that we all know the dangers of petroleum based chemicals, and the signage reminds us of them.
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Posted By MetalMan
"We all know the dangers of petrolium based chemicals" Do we Vernon? Go on to any garage forecourt and do a survey and see what the results are! I bet you not many people do know! Also, ask how many people have seen the signs on the forecourt and ask them what the signs say!
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Posted By Jeepster
Benzine is only an example, there are hexanes, toluene, xylene, ethers etc. etc. all in the complex mix most of which are carcinogenic
but the simple details within the msds sheets are just not posted, like avoid skin contact...
Wear the gloves ! because this stuff is bad for you.
There are several R & S phrases but none of those are posted.
Next time you fill up you car look at how little H&S information there is.
I just don't think people in general, have a clue what they are handling.
And this thread is probably complete !
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Posted By Vernon Kay
LOL at Metalman! I do believe people know the dangers of petrol. Otherwise more people would be seen smoking etc around the fuel stations, and this does not happen.
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Posted By MetalMan
No Vernon, that doesn't mean they know all the dangers does it, It just means they know that it goes bang! when you smoke.
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Posted By Vernon Kay
I would say going bang is a pretty nice danger!
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Posted By MetalMan
Vernon, there are other dangers apart from explosions, as the original poster tried to put across, just because we all know it goes bang! doesn't mean that's all there is to be concerned about.
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Posted By NeilM Poyznts-Powell
Hi,
I would have though that the simple answer is that the employee has a duty to inform his employees of the danger and to protect others who may be affected by their undertaking.
Therefore, the garage owner would need to ensure thay had carried out a suitable and sufficebnt risk assessment and put in place necessary controls.
In the same way that you do not get an MSDS or COSHH Assessment when you buy bleach, thinners or other items used outside work.
On the other side of the argument, would you or indeed the public at large, want the healh risks associated with everything purchsed to be brought to their attention? I can start to see the headlines now!
Regards,
Neil
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Posted By Jeepster
Firstly, I do believe people know it goes bang.
However, I do not believe they have any comprehension of how well this chemical is designed to go bang and therefore any idea of the explosive energy in one gallon. Remember it has a flash point of -40C where as diesel is +50C so it will readily ignite in any condition.
Also when you buy bleach etc you have the coshh labels on the side.
Petrol you have no info, personally you need an adequate level of information to make choices. ie why should I wear gloves. This is not readily available at present and therefore it could be an improvement
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Posted By Dave Wilson
Does Petrol fall under the auspices of COSHH?
If so, why?
substances which are hazardous
only because they are: radioactive; at
high pressure; at extreme
temperatures; or have explosive or
flammable properties (other
regulations apply to these risks);
From HSE Info! suppose its the 'other properties'
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Posted By Pete48
Jeepster,
a good question, shame you spoil it with sensationalistic phrases such as "incredible flammability" "this could be the most hazardous material people come into contact with on a weekly basis" "very explosive carcinogen" "major constituent of petrol is benzene." You may not be technically adept in this area and, therefore, not appreciate that these have no place in any professional assessment of risks such as those you wish to discuss.
The reality is very different from the picture you paint and a short technical examination of the data sheets together with a rough appreciation of the exposure periods and levels for the average customer would show this without the need for further detailed quantitative study on your part. To put in simple terms, takes place in an open environment where inhalation is not automatically happening every time if at all, for very short periods at frequencies much less than any workplace exposure. No physical contact with fuel during normal dispensing.
I do wonder how much one has to follow the conspiracy theory to arrive at a point where one could think that major distributors of these products would not have made a thorough and detailed examination of the risks arising from their operations and put into place all currently relevant and practicable safeguards.
Of course, acting responsibly whilst refuelling your vehicle is an important part of the task, that is why the current warning signs are there to remind users of those KEY H&S matters.
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Petrol does fall within the definition of a substance hazardous to health because it is hazardous not only because of its flammable or explosive properties but also because the total effect of its constituents (benzene, toluene, trimethyl benzenes, etc.) is detriment to health.
Paul
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Posted By Jane Blunt
If we want to be fussy, petrol should fall under:
DSEAR because of its flammability and explosive potential, and
COSHH because several of its constituents have exposure limits when inhaled.
Jane
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Posted By Pete48
Jeepster,
Please stop quoting incorrect technical information about motor spirit in your counter arguments. For example, it does not have a flashpoint of 40C. It will not go bang or readily ignite in any condition.
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Posted By Heather Collins
And if I may say so, this:
"Benzine is only an example, there are hexanes, toluene, xylene, ethers etc. etc. all in the complex mix most of which are carcinogenic"
is a gross exageration. Most solvents are hazardous to health but most of those you name here are NOT carcinogenic.
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Posted By Descarte
and then benzene content is very low >1% but more likely 0.5% or less
This even then only appears on the data sheet due to the fact that this material has an exposure limit. To which you would not exceed filling you car up once a week.
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