Posted By Pete48
There is a previous thread with lots of comments about supermarket car parks. I have a question arising out of that thread that I would to introduce.
The previous thread seems to have drawn a lot of responses all alleging unsafe design or perhaps to be a little more charitable, design that could be improved to reduce risk of accident and injury.
Now I have no idea whether they meet the required standards or not so I wouldn't want to comment or offer opinion upon their safety one way or the other.

However, it has got me to thinking about whether there is any accident / injury based evidence to support most of the comments made in this thread? Anyone know of any sources of data and what they show?

I accept that "no accidents" does not justify poor safety; that is not a point I am trying to make.

Posted By Tony Brunskill
There is evidence. I dealt with a large Furnishing retailer some years ago who had a history of issues in one particular car park. Mainly due to proximity of cars to the entrance and bright sunlight in the afternoons. Little redesign to layout solved the problem.

Tony

Posted By Paul Devlin
In response to your question Pete the HSE dont usually take RTA's on as such and usually the police deal with them so you likelihood is you wont get the stats or evidence from them via prosecutions etc.

I think it would be very hard to get the kind of things to prove car parks, not just supermarket car parks are in essence dangerous.
Its more than likely its the people using them that make them a risk if that makes sense.

I agree that generally supermarket car parks are badly laid out and in my area they usually only have 1 way in and out which leads to congestion and irate, irritated drivers who will tend to rush a bit more to get in/out especially around the dreaded xmas rush where people by enough food to feed a small nation as if the shops where shut for the 2 weeks over festive period.

The best design I've seen of a car park is a shopping centre in Glasgow called Braehead, multiple exits, well signposted, proper one way system and best of all marked out pedestrian walkways.

Posted By Gordon Thelwell
Hmmm, good topic, but what can we, shall we do about it? Sounds like a focus group to me. To take a supermarket carpark where we can identify the problems, suggest improvements and display elements that should be present in all carparks at supermarkets.

So when , where shall we meet. What's the agenda? Aims, objectives, timescales.

Or shall we just talk about it? (throws gauntlet on the floor)

Gordon

Posted By J Knight
Hi Paul,

Difficult for me to be prescriptive, as I don't know HSE's enforcement policy on this, but it wouldn't be a Police matter, as they are only concerned with RTAs on public roads, and while I agree that it would be a different matter, I remain convinced that the supermarket (or indeed other car park owner) has a duty of care under HASAWA, the difference being s3 rather than s2. Whether HSE took action would depend on whether or not in their view the layout, road markings and so on might have contributed to the accident. HSE guidance on workplace transport is pretty clear about duties to prevent injuries to visitors on the premises, subject of course to matters under the employer's control.

The scenario where a pedestrian/driver was injured would surely be reportable under RIDDOR if it arose out of work, and met the other definitions of reportable; this could result in an HSE (or LA as it is retail) visit,

John

Posted By Paul Devlin
Lighten up Gordon??

Its called debate?

You wont change the car parks as the incident rates etc will be very low and trying to gather statistics will be a logistical nightmare.

Its like saying cars and roads are dangerous when most of the times its the users that create the danger.

Of course thats my humble opinion but please feel free to debate the point.

Posted By Tony Brunskill
Gordon,

Thanks for your opinion.