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Posted By Paul Durkin
Hi All,
In the RRO guide no 1 for offices page 65 states that: " Normal lifts may be considered suitable for fire evacuation purposes, subject to an adequate fire risk assessment and development of a suitable fire safety strategy by a competent person"(CP)
Has any CP out there been brave enough to develop such? Our traditional FIRE ACTION notices all state:'DO NOT USE LIFTS'!!!
Regards,Paul
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Posted By anon1234
I have seem this when a large building has more than one lift shaft lcoation, essentially two buildings joined togehter. If there is adeqaute fire protection between the two halves of the building it may be possible to still use one of the lift shafts in the event of a fire - assumingof course the fire detection system is sufficiently designed to identify which part of the building is at risk etc
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Posted By Ashley Wood
Paul,
I have just completed a fire risk assessment for a client and I have stated that the lift can be used to assist the fire and rescue services in there evacuation of the sheltered scheme. I made this decision based on what I noted when I did the assessment i.e the lift shaft is made of concrete, the lift motor room is on the external face of the building, the lift doors open onto a protected landing fitted with fire doors with smoke seals and also a smoke detector on the landings. However, the lift is not to be used by the residents only as a means of evacuation. Only the fire service can use it to aid there evacuation. A lift can not be dedicated as a 'fire lift' unless it meets strict criteria.
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Posted By Derek Pratt
Should the power supply be considered also? A lift may be fire-protected but if the incident cuts the power the endurance of the protection (and of the occupants) may be tested in anger...
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Posted By Ashley Wood
Derek, absolutely. The power supply must be protected. The site I surveyed had all the right conditions to enable a 'green light' to be given, this is rare.
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Posted By Derek Housley
I first heard this being suggested by a representative of the CBI at a Fire Safety seminar around 3 years ago. He argued that if the electrics and the lift was separated by fire resisting construction from the fire why shouldn't the lift be used?
The reality of a fire is that upon activation a fire alarm, the occupants would not normally know where the fire is, and without this vital information even if competent not be able to make decision to use the lift or not.
Firefighting lifts, ( double door protection, with a secondary power supply and a firefighters switch), may of course be used for evacuation purposes, and the location of disabled refuges in the lobby areas is good practice. It is further good practice to provide disabled evacuation chairs in staircases.
It would be prudent to perhaps consult with the Fire Authority, about the use of the lift, as of course they may wish to use it for fire fighting purposes.
Then record your "significant findings" in your fire risk assessment.
Derek
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Posted By Crim
Paul,
I've only just read this thread and find it rather scary!
I recently fire risk assessed a three storey shop in a busy city centre and investigated the use of the lift which I was told was OK to be used for fire evacuation. I contacted the manufacturer/installer and was told in no uncertain terms not to use that lift in evacuation.
There is a set standard for fire evacuation lifts and I would recommend you stick to that standard. If in doubt don't recommend it!
I understand your reasons for "passing" the lift you mention but what if the fire is outside the building and involves the external motor room after persons are inside the lift car?
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Posted By Crim
Paul,
Just read page 65 as you mention, the paragraph immediately following the one you quote begins "since evacuation lifts can fail" - if they can fail what chance do "normal" lifts have?
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Posted By Paul Durkin
Hi All,
Grateful thanks for your contributions , yes will have to check all lifts for possibility of use. Should not new building regs or BSs now specify a higher spec. for 'normal 'lifts ?
Regards, Paul
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Posted By Charley Farley-Trelawney
Could someone explain where it states lifts should descend to ground floor in the event of an alarm (linked in to alarms) and the doors remain open, and stay that way until either an investigating fire officer or responsible person decides it is safe to return to normal. I can't find this in any alarm company do's an don'ts or an acop or statute; could someone advise please?
Many thanks
CFT
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Charley, I don't believe it does say it anywhere. I believe it is under review. The problem is that a person can discover a fire, sound the alarm and evacuate, Fire marshal does their sweep and shuts the door behind them just as the lift in which a person has ascended the building opens directly onto the floor of the fire. Nobody knows they are there and the fire marshal has declared their floor clear. So fire risk assessment says ground the lift on operation of the fire alarm.
As to the original thread, I believe the argument about using a lift in an emergency was not in case of fire but in the event of a bomb so long as the bomb was not in the building. I would not advocate using a lift in the event of fire. Lifts do not necessarily go directly to ground so it is possible that a lift may open onto the floor of a fire as it descends. Firefighting lifts do not have this problem.
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Posted By andymak
We have allowed limited use of certain lifts for evacuation purposes. The lifts concerned have a generator back up supply, and run within protected escape routes.
What we have done is allocate them for evacuation of disabled colleagues only. Once two way speach communications have been established between anyone in a refuge point and the incident control and we are alble to direct them on teh next action we wish to be taken.
Anyone at a refuge point will have a trained fire marshal or buddy with them, and they will be directed to most convenient, suitable lift away from the building compartment where the alarm has actuated.
We have 2000 people on site and the majority of our disabled colleagues evacuate alongside their able bodied colleagues, however due to certain medical problems we have one or two individuals who are unable to eveacuate under their own momentum, and who are also unable to use the stairway evacuation chairs and stair climbers. We have found that this solution works well and our fire and rescue are not unhappy with this arrangement.
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Posted By shaun mckeever
I should qualify what I said in my last posting. I would not advocate the use of 'normal' lifts in the event of fire. Firefighting lifts and evacuation lifts as part of the strategy for evacuating disabled occupants can be used providing they are well managed.
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