Posted By GSP
Is it the homeowners responsibility if a window cleaner falls from a ladder whilst cleaning the top floor windows of a 3 storey townhouse?

Posted By Ian Hurley
I would have thought that the window cleaner, knowing what work was involved, would have risk assessed the job and knew what equipment to use, ladders are not banned so he is entitled to use them(although rare in this day and age)and i would have thought that the window cleaner would be at fault(not knowing the full details of how he fell etc..)

Posted By holmezy


I would think not. HASAW doesnt apply to homeownwers. Its the responsibility of the window cleaner to ensure that he is working safely.

Certainly no home insurance would pay out on this and you cant expect all homeowners to have public liability insurance, nor could you expect "old Ethel at number 10" to effectively control any service providers. We expect these folks to be competent and be able to look after themselves.

The window cleaner may also have difficulty getting anything out of his insurer, the first questions they would ask would be "where's your risk assessment and why were you using a ladder".

More and more window cleaners are starting to use extending poles with squeegies on them and water pumped up, so they can happily stay on the floor..............apparently the quality of clean isnt so good.too many streaks!!

Posted By AlisonM
Our window cleaners (there's a team of them) use ladders when they clean the windows in our street. Only thing we've had through the door is a card saying "you owe us £4.50".

As they are self-employed then they should conduct a suitable and sufficient risk assessment and then reduce the risks etc..

As for using scare tactics, I think he might find that backfires as people may think "um, I'll not use him then if he's gonna sue me!" and get someone else instead...like their other half (male or female!)

Posted By Chris G
As previous comments said, it's scare tactics. Would this be one for trading standards, as advertising falls under their remit?

Chris

Posted By Philby'
GSP

If its a new house, why havent they fit the windows that pivot in, so that you can clean them from the inside?

safe by design, unless you fall through the open window that is

Philby'

Posted By Glyn Atkinson
£4.50, that's cheap !!

What location is this again, I'll offer him a one storey building job instead at that price !!

Posted By AlisonM
Glynn

Dalgety Bay and they clean 7 windows and 2 doors for that price...sshhhh though as I don't want them to put the price up again (it used to be £4!).

Posted By holmezy
Philby,

you only have an obligation to maintain if there's an interested third party, ie mortgage company or if your landlords lease specifies it. If you own your own home, then you do what you like with it, within reason. Certainly no obligation to ensure the gutters, windows etc are maintained....or that there is a suitable standing for the footing of ladders etc.

As stated, we buy expertise in to clean the windows, so wholly his responsibility.

Posted By Philby'
holmezy,

I meant an obligation if you are aware that 'something is left in such a state as might cause loss or injury...' local planning office....

past home where adjoining wall fell on vehicle, not mine, IP claimed on my house insurance for loss. Somehow LA got to here about it and demanded that reamining wall be be demolished and rebuilt...futhter investigation proved it used to be part of toilet block for street, no ownership on my part or 7 other houses in terrace as not on our deeds. Left the LA and water company to fight it out

and isnt there a duty not to set traps for tresspassers, including holes in floor!

Philby'

Posted By ste k67
you could read this for clarification.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/regulations.htm

If you are a property owner and allow work to be carried out on your property by a contractor who you have contracted (and that is exactly what you have done with a window cleaner who can show that he has undertaken cleaning work on your property at regular, verbally agreed intervals) then you become a "dutyholder"
If you have a window cleaner who places his ladders against your gutters and/or steps off them onto a sloping roof to clean difficult to reach windows, then you ought to be concerned.
If he was to fall and suffer serious injury or death, he or his estate would undoubtedly seek compensation from any party who could in any way be held responsible.
As he homeowner who allowed this unsafe practice to continue on your property, you would almost certainly be taken to task.
As in most legal cases, ignorance of the law is not a defence.
Window cleaners also have an obligation to carry out work at height safely and should consider alternatives to ladders where possible. This includes the Water Fed Pole system which utilises purified water and extending fibre glass poles. The water is pumped to a brush head, the glass and frames are brushed and washed and finally rinsed in pure water. As this water has had all minerals and salts removed by a purification process, the windows dry completely spotless in most cases. The important factor to consider is that the window cleaner has not had to climb ladders and cannot fall off the ground!.
The other benefits to you are:

.no broken tiles on sloping roofs
.no ladder damage to sills, gutters or lawns
.no invasion of your privacy

There may be occasions when the cleaner has to use a ladder but he can take additional measures to minimise risks of falling.
Remember though, if you pay peanuts what do you get?
I would urge any homeowner to consider the compensation climate we live in and ensure a window cleaner on their property is not working in such a way, that he puts himself at risk of falling. Ask them what safety measures they are taking to minimise risks.
If they are professional, they will be happy to reassure you. If they are evasive or off handed then seriously consider hiring a professional.

Posted By martin gray1


GSP

If it is a new house? are the windows UPVc?

If they are we always fit what we call easy clean hinges on all openers on homes over two storeys. This means once the window is open you can get your hand down the back to clean them. In the case of fanlights you can get your hand over the top to clean.

Also the design of windows used should make it possible to clean the whole window from inside, if not they have been poorly designed.
The above is standard practise with most reputable companies.

Perhaps I should not have used the word reputable and double glazing, but some of us are nice people.

MG

Posted By Stupendous Man
Definitely not the homeowners responsibility.

It is for the window cleaner to adopt a safe system of work. Given that many people are out at work when the window cleaner visits it is unreasonable to expect the householder to know how the cleaner is working and to supervise accordingly.

If there is an inherent problem with three-storey homes, then it should be the architect under the spotlight.

Given that there is a desire to increase housing density, it is highly likely that architects will build more storeys with a smaller footprint. It is the architects responsibility to consider how the windows will be cleaned, and for the builder to pass this information on to the householder. Only then will it become a responsibility for the householder to tell the window cleaner how the windows should be cleaned!

If you are that worried about being sued, perhaps we should all avoid buying houses with three or more storeys?

Posted By CW
On new builds, should designers be removing the hazard before it exists?

http://www.pilkington.co...efit/selfcleaning/activ/

It seems RP to me.

Posted By ian milne
As you will of gathered by now, most laws do not apply to domestic premises but do apply to the self-employed or company working at the domestic premises.

Perhaps, he's trying to save up for a ladder, rather than just completely ill-informed.....or ill-informing!

Posted By Rob T
The definitive answer to your actual question is NO.

There is one proviso here - if you are safety qualified then you have a duty to bring any unsafe work practices to the individuals attention - there is case law on this and someone out there should remember the Safety advisor and the scaffold case which he walked past and didn't say anything (unlucky), sorry did my Diploma too long ago to remember the exact case.

That said - the answer is still no as regards to could he sue you. You could sue him if he damages your property whilst falling though.