Posted By Sharon Has anyone out there got a COSHH quiz or simple test they can share with me?

Posted By Chris Packham Yes, Alan, but... With a client doing training the other day I was presented with 15 safety data sheets. Every one was inaccurate. None provided me with the information I needed to establish what the hazards might be if the substance came into contact with the skin. None told me what the potential hazards would be when I actually used the product (e.g. diluted, mixed, heated etc.). Incidentally, the recent study by the Chemical Hazards Communication Society showed in a preliminary report that only about 1.7% of safety data sheets were accurate in all respects! Not one of the participants in the course (middle managers running departments using chemicals) would have been able to identify the shortcomings in the safety data sheets at their disposal. So what chance an effective risk assessment? Safety data sheets are for CHIP, not for COSHH (see paragraph 13 of COSHH ACoP). For a risk assessment you need information for use (as required by section 6-1 of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974). Sorry if I appear somewhat assertive on this, but my concern is with prevention of damage to health from skin exposure and safety data sheets are a major cause of problems. In most cases I have to go back to the supplier and fight to get the information needed for a risk assessment. Coming back to the original request, I use an illustrated description of a factory that I visited. I ask participants on the course to study this and attempt to decide which are the tasks where would allocate prority in dealing with the exposure. It is fascinating to see how people arrive at their responses. Chris

Posted By Chris Packham AMD Last month I ran a Webinar (Internet training session) for the British Occupational Hygiene Society on "Safety data sheets - what they don't tell you and you really need to know". The Powerpoint material I used is on the BOHS website and freely accessible. If you need more, get in touch with me off the chat forum. (chris.packham@enviroderm.co.uk) Chris

Posted By AJM Dear Chris, I feel i must answer your retort. At my last company i personally audited the whole chemical data sheets for a 400 strong workforce dieing facility. They used 100's of chemicals i not only audited every single one I cross referenced with EH40 guidance and found at least 4 that had EH40 issues but they had not changed their MSDS in fact we had some that were classed as non harmful and were actually irritant. We also had some that were sensitisers and did not stipulate it. I was actually driving the changes to the chemical company that supplied the chemical to us. The point I am making is i know only too well the problems associated with chemical data sheets but that wasn't the question that was asked, it was about training so i gave my opinion of the best way to raise awareness of how to use a data sheet. Which went down very well incidently in my personal training sessions. Alan

Posted By Chris Packham Alan I wasn't trying to attack, merely to express my concern at what I so often find, which is an assumption by employers that the safety data sheets (a) are a gold standard that does not need questioning and (b) that the safety data sheet actually tells you what you need to know for a risk assessment. On the latter point, chemicals can change in use or when mixed. Rarely, in my experience, does the safety data sheet inform about this. You are obviously very clued up on this, but what about the SME, where there is little or no expertise? It is not uncommon for me to find assessments based on inaccurate information from the safety data sheet. It remains a concern for me, and becomes a concern for many of my clients, when they realise how their risk assessments might not have been valid. Chris

Posted By Adrian Watson Chris, I have great problems with MSDS's and risk assessments. Firstly, I agree MSDS's are NORMALLY INCOMPLETE OR INCORRECT! They should not be used as the only source of information. Secondly, MSDS's are not a risk assessment; People must carry out a risk assessment! Thirdly, people must put in place appropriate controls identified in the risk assessment and inform workers of the risks to health. The court of appeal has defined "risk" as meaning "possibility of harm." Persons carrying out risk assessments MUST ANTICIPATE or IDENTIFY events and conditions that cause harm (HAZARDS) and EVALUATE the possibility of harm occurring (RISK) and then identify and put in place appropriate CONTROL measures. In respect of COSHH a hazardous substance is ANY substance (natural, or artificial substance, including biological agents, in any form) that is USED or PRODUCED in the workplace that produces a RISK to HEALTH because of its chemical or toxicological properties. Therefore you need to consider the individual; the tasks and work processes; materials and substances used or produced; environmental conditions and control measures. Remember to take account of new conditions (wearing gloves or washing hands repeatedly) that give rise to new risks to health. Any risk assessment that does not consider all of these is inadequate. Regards Adrian Watson Dip Occ Hyg Registered Occupational Hygienist

Posted By Chris Packham Adrian My views exactly. In fact, I feel we would have been better off had we not called it the Control of Substances Hazardous to Health (emphasis on substances) but Control of Work Involving Substances (emphasis on work). Some of us are aware of the problem with safety data sheets, but how does an SME, with no chemical or toxicological know-how, decide when mixing two products from different suppliers what the hazard of the mixture will be? (Even I can have problems here, but fortunately have a "tame chemist" who I can consult.) How many chemical suppliers are aware of their duties under section 6-1 of the Act to provide information so that their product can be used safely for the purpose for which it was supplied? My experience suggests very few. Chris

Posted By Jeffrey Watt Chris I liked the tea/coffee slide. Jeff