Posted By Exdeeps Good Morning, During the last week I herd an anecdote that made me wonder about how different situations lead to different perceptions of risk and hazard. A colleague has recently visited offices where part of the induction was a warning to use the lift if carrying a drink between floors. In another office he was warned that it was policy to have one hand on the hand rail when ever using stairs - and he was told off for not doing so later that day. Now, I have spent my working life at sea on ships and submarines and I now work in an oil refinery. To me theses rules seem to be over the top but I assume they are based on the good old risk assessment. Is this because of my personal experience of being surrounded by high energy systems 24/7 and so to my mind an office stair case is generally the least of my problems or is it somewhere in between my perception and the conkers bonkers end of the spectrum? Please feel free to comment, throw rocks at me etc, I have my tin hat on and I have thick skin, Jim

Posted By Jim Walker Hi Deeps IMHO its a question of priorities and the way people are quick to blame others (liability claims). In some office environments the most serious risk might be falling down the stairs. Those of us in high risk environments might have other things on our minds. Other issue is when you were afloat and bumped your self in rough weather you went "oh dear" (or words to that effect) and then got on with the job. Unfortunately these days when the similar thing happens in a office, the first thing that seems to pass through the injured person's mind is "who was responsible for that and it isn't me AND can I make a claim".

Posted By J Knight Hi Folks, There is a certain machismo detectable in this thread; 'I work on 'proper' safety, you softies in service industries don't know you're born'. Well, I've done both, I've worked in construction (black economy stuff in the 1980s with no H&S to speak of) and heavy industry, and yes, the hazards in those areas are more obvious, and the injuries caused by them are often sickening. But four people died of work related injuries in public administration last year, and eight the year before. Fair enough, that's not such a huge number compared to the death rate in construction, but for each of those four people it was all the deaths that can ever matter, as indeed it would have been for their families. And that's to say nothing about work-related illness and less serious injury. In the service industry I work in we wrestle with msd, falls from a height, driving at work, violence and aggression, stress and many others. Sorry it's not 'real' safety, since scaffolding hardly every figures in our work, but somebody has to care about the people who work in services, and I'm just glad and proud that one of those somebodies is me, John

Posted By Exdeeps John, As I said this is born out of curiosity. Machismo and "proper safety" don't enter into the equation, I am simply curious about perception of risk and how it manifests itself as a way to learn about something I have no personal experience of. Jim

Posted By Descarte What is one of the single biggest group of work place accidents which still occur to this day? Slip, trips and falls How many of these can occur on stair ways? Lots What could the potential outcome be? Severe (broken bones or worse) Is there a cost effective and simple solution to help combat this? Yes hold the hand rails, use elevators if carrying goods To me it seems like common sense, if your in a company which has had a record of several slips or falls whilst people have been walking around using stairs, carrying objects then do they need a policy on and enforce the rule of holding the hand rail at the risk of molly coddling the staff. Yes

Posted By Manny Isn't it sad that we have to tell grown ups how to walk up and down a stair? Next we will have to remind them to tie their laces and wear their mittens (the ones on a string in their sleeves) when it gets cold! Sad, very sad. Can't wait for the weekend. Manny

Posted By Jim Walker I think I was having a dig at people taking responsibility for their actions. Surely if stairs are in good order & well lit any amount of further risk assessment ain't gonna prevent a fall. In a previous job, I shared an office with the facilities manager. One day a woman came in and started ranting about what was he going to do about recompensing her for falling over in the car park (she was muddy & bruised). When I suggested that her 4 inch stiletto heels might have been a significant factor , I was threatened with the company sex discrimination policy.

Posted By Jay Joshi Why is it a safe behaviour to use handrails on stairs? Using handrails reduces the potential for slips, trips and falls on stairs by providing balance and support to us. Use of handrails is therefore a positive/safe behaviour that should be re-inforced Do you know that:- In the workplace:- • In the year 2003-2004, a total of 7,144 injuries were reported to the GB Health and Safety Executive where the agent causing the injury is attributed to stairs/steps. This is out of 1,869 "major" and 5,275 "over 3 day" injuries • This was 17% of all agents that caused slips, trips & falls (out of a grand total of 41,768). • Slipping and tripping is the most common kind of accident causing a “major injury” to employees • Slipping/tripping is the second most common kind of “over-3-day injury” to employees and accounted for almost one quarter of all over-3-day injuries in 2003/04). At Home & Leisure in 2002:- • Approximately 306,168 (11.3%) home injuries can be attributed to falls on/from stairs & steps • Approximately 140,307 (4.4%) leisure injuries can be attributed to falls on/from stairs & steps • Approximately 440,000 (4%) home & leisure injuries can be attributed to a construction feature( i.e the lack of) in stairs etc. The source of this data is:- • HSE year 2003 data on workplace slips, trips & falls resulting in major and over 3 day injuries where the agent causing the injury is attributed to stairs/steps • One year's data for 2002 from the UK Home Accident Surveillance System (HASS) and Leisure Accident Surveillance System (LASS) (HASS - the Home Accident Surveillance System - and LASS - the Leisure Accident Surveillance System - are two linked databases holding details of home and leisure accidents that caused a serious enough injury to warrant a visit to hospital. They do not include road or workplace accidents)

Posted By J Knight OK Folks, I take the point that you weren't intending it to come across as machismo, but sometimes it feels a bit that way, John

Posted By Merv Newman I was employed from 1967 to 1992 by Du Pont. The "hold the handrail" rule was already in place. When coffee machines were invented, with plastic cups we were required to use lids and carry any more than one cup in a carrier. Never heard the one about having to use the lift. I can't remember the exact date, somewhere in the 1980s, but in that year the 10 000 production related employees had zero lost time injuries. The 5 000 non-production, services, employees had four. Including a girl who fell down stairs and broke both wrists. To this day I cannot use stairs without holding the handrail. If there isn't one I run my hand down the wall. Old, safe habits die hard. Since its Friday, I'll tell you another one : all four-drawer filing cabinets and storage cupboards were screwed to the wall to stop them tilting over. And so are the ones in this office today. Sure, in the dangerous, heavy industries we take care of the major risks. But we also take care of the "domestic" risks ; slips, trips and falls included. The second worst incident I had on my UK site was two guys who bumped into each other at a corridor corner. One was so shocked we had to get him to hospital. So we instituted a "keep left" rule. I don't think that is "trivial" safety. Merv

Posted By Exdeeps I did not say that holding the rail on stairs was trivial Merv, I am just curious about different perceptions and how people mitigate the hazard, Jim

Posted By Jay Joshi Merv, This year, worldwide, we have had 2 OSHA recordables due to a collision between two employees at a corner in an office--resulted in stitches to both of them --foreheads. These did not result as loss time accident, but were "medical treatment cases" I can confirm that there was nothing inherently unsafe in context of lighting, width of corridor etc. Some might say to install "corner mirrors", but are you going to do that at all corners? In fact 5 out of our 7 "OSHA-recordables" worldwide this year have been in the so called "low risk" areas, 3 of them related to stairs/steps! This is despite having a OSHA TRIR of 0.35 and LTIR of 0.1 which can be considered at the top decile level. Even after the employer has ensured that all the stairs are well lit, designed, constructed, maintained, there is a lot to be said about individual behaviour when it comes to slips, trips and falls. The HSE recently published a research report that reviewed the existing scientific literature concerning how attitudes and behaviours may affect the prevalence of STFs. http://www.hse.gov.uk/re...hsl_pdf/2006/hsl0670.pdf At our UK site, we use behavioural safety feedback to encourage safe behaviour and discourage at-risk behaviours. Our process is simple--we have moved away from formal checklist observations and anyone on our site can provide a behaviour based observation feedback to another, with a simple recording system refer to as "one-liners". So far it is not a discilpinary offence not to use the handrail!

Posted By Jeffrey Watt Colleegways I get a lot of people complaining about the mote in my eye without any discourse on the beam in theirs. Some folks, I would agree need the hazard radar calibrated, bless em. The other day I got attacked with, "These new canteen chairs are dangerous another person has caught a foot on them, what are you going to do about it!" In my best David Bellamy voice I attempted, " Ahh, the womberful amazwonian ankle diver, renownd amwong chairs for it's abwility to jwump out and tackle umsuspecting canteen users when their gward is dwopped." The person boiled a bit more. When they got down to a simmer I added. "No John*,they are not dangerous, filling the means of escape outside your office with 4 years of scrap reports is dangerous. When I can think of a way to make you see that I'll get onto the chairs if I'm not busy. Are you still here" It helps being a people person in this safety lark. Emotional intelligence is a real gift and I thank my lucky stars every chance I get that I'm overflowing with the stuff. (*Name changed to protect the guilty) Jeff

Posted By Merv Newman Exdeeps, and isn't the maritime rule "one hand for you, the other for the ship" ? And how fast can you get down a ladder if you lift both feet in the air ? Merv

Posted By Jeffrey Watt Raymond well said, I am in a spot of panto this year. The critics say that Dobbin's rear end has never been so deeply moving till young Watt donned the braces. Don't clap, throw money.

Posted By Pete48 Is the rear end of a panto Dobbin a confined space I wonder?

Posted By Catman Hi All This week, I am sick to death of scoffing small company bosses, acting all macho in front of their staff when the safety advisor suggests such unreasonable things as safety harnesses in the MEWP, eye protection when using the stihl saw and high vis vests in the yard. The prevailing attitude seems to be 'we are big brave men but we will humour the silly safety bloke', when really, I suspect, a lot of them are glad somebody is improving things. With that in mind, although it may seem outlandish to some to suggest we should risk assess and control the stairwell situation when there are untrained dumper drivers out there, I think any company that gets to that stage deserves a big pat on the back. We are often the last line of defence as we dont have a macho front to maintain, we are already a bit soft. So where the staff in a lot of cases may not want to rock the boat over a 'minor' safety issue, it is our job to do just that. So more power to our namby pamby elbows, pass the cotton wool and lets ensure we dont let our 'street cred' get in the way of any possible improvemnt to the working environment. Off for a beer in a plastic container in a smoke free pub now. Cheers TW

Posted By Exdeeps To every one who responded, a big thank you, There is certainly a lot to mull over. If I may make some observations based on what was (and was not) said. First I was a little surprised that no one pointed out that my experiences are based in situations that by their nature tend to require fit, highly trained people ( I am trying to phrase this so as not to offend, forgive me if I do offend) Individual behaviour is also of paramount importance. When I go out on site I wear FR Overalls, boots, glasses, hard hat, H2S monitor and carry an escape respirator - They all say to me watch out, it's a dangerous place out there. In an office there may well be pressure (Peer or corporate) to wear cloths that are not "intrinsically" safe (High heels or shoes with a flat sole spring to mind)giving an initial impression that the work area is safe from hazards. Ultimately, to paraphrase Merv, we need to prioritise the risks - look after the major hazards and the little ones will look after themselves. Finally, Pete48, yes the most important safety device on a "boat" is whatever gets you back to the surface - combined with a person who recognises that it is now time to get back to the surface -How many of us have seen someone tapping gauges etc. saying "that can't be right, give it a minute or two and it will settle down" Jim