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#1 Posted : 11 December 2006 16:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Daljit Sehmbi I have just been informed that a mobile phone company is going to install mobile phone mast near our school premises. The location is approximately 30m from the school playing field boundary. Anybody have any useful advice or opinions they would like to share ? Has anyone else had to deal with this previously and what was the outcome ?
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#2 Posted : 11 December 2006 16:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson ave a gander http://www.hpa.org.uk/hp...0/press_release_6_00.htm
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#3 Posted : 11 December 2006 16:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By fats van den raad Daljit No I have no not had to deal with this personally apart from my experience in South Africa where hundreds of schools are cashing in on extra revenue generated by renting out an obscure corner of the school premises to mobile phone companies to erect masts. The masts are not the hideous steel monstrosities that one would expect either, but are cleverly camouflaged as huge trees so that it blends in with the natural surroundings as well.
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#4 Posted : 11 December 2006 16:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen D. Clarke The siting of phone masts on and near school sites is a matter of concern for parents which is understandable given press reports. I believe the current best practice with regard to base stations and mobile phones is outlined in the Stewart Report, which advocates a precautionary approach and other reports/guidance including the European Directive on Occupational Exposure to EMFs and the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister PPG8 document. These documents are available on the internet. My understanding is that since the emissions from mobile phone masts are non-ionising the only effect on humans is slight internal heating and that currently it is not possible to prove that no significant risks exist but I wait to be corrected. I think phone companies are required to furnish risk assessments quantifying radiation, energy field, or electrical hazards and safety of persons nearby. Subject to no adverse findings of the risk assessment and no adverse planning considerations or amenity issues the installation will go ahead. The local planning authority (ie district or borough council) has to be notified of the intention to install a mast or aerial. Hope this is of some help.
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#5 Posted : 11 December 2006 19:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Daljit Sehmbi Anybody know anything about this report and how I can get more details:- The Stewart Group did not recommend that base stations should not be located on or near schools. It did, however, recommend that the beam of greatest intensity should not be permitted to fall on any part of the school grounds without the agreement of the school or parents. This part of the beam will generally fall between 50 to 200m from the base of a mast.
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#6 Posted : 11 December 2006 19:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Youel Nearly 300 children killed on our roads last year - lets get on with looking at the real risks - e.g. the asbestos in many of our schools and road speeds as against the masts having dealt with many a mast the main hazard is the hand-set - 'not in my back yard' appears to be the norm yet parents will not give up their mobiles -- get all the info from the proper quarters without getting heated and decide thereafter perhaps then parents can partition for slower speed limits on many of our roads and proper asbestos management
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#7 Posted : 11 December 2006 21:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Exdeeps OK People, Daljit is not a H&S professional but IS the chair of governors at this school. I pointed them at this site from a question on the Governorweb chat room so with respect, this is not a question that requires a rant, Daljit is genuinly looking for help from proffesionals, with a potential problem for the Governors of this school, Jim
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#8 Posted : 12 December 2006 00:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor I've had this approach a few times. The one for location on school premises was rejected in view of parental and teacher concerns. Two others were for erection within the neighbourhood of schools so I asked for a copy of their assessment of the radiation levels that would be present at maximum output and, as these were only a small fraction of published guidance, we replied to the effect that we had no objection but reserved the right to respond otherwise should further guidance be published.
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#9 Posted : 12 December 2006 07:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Daljit Sehmbi I am very grateful for the information you have provided. As indicated in one of the postings I am just trying to gather the facts and professional opinions, I am not a H&S professional and without the correct information how can anyone make any decision. One further question Looking at PPG8 - Telecommunications from the following URL http://www.communities.g...asp?id=1143966#TopOfPage Macrocells provide the main structure for the base station network. The base stations for macrocells have power outputs of tens of watts and communicate with phones up to about 35 kilometres (22 miles) distant. Anybody know where I can find out the equivalent information about UMTS ?
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#10 Posted : 12 December 2006 08:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lilian McCartney Apparently there is a new study about to be completed and the info to be avilable next year - though not sure of details. One thing I had heard (not sure of how common/truth) is that when you let them put one thing up they quickly change this to bigger and more powerful masts e.g. 3G masts. If it's not on your premises I'd reckon (from the fact that there's a lot of masts out there) that it might just go ahead anyway. On saying that the phone company might be receptive to you calling them and opening a discussion on your concerns. Phone masts are very emotive with a lot of perceptions on them and it being difficult to know for sure as they haven't been around long enough for long term effects (if any) to show it's always a concern to parents.
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#11 Posted : 12 December 2006 20:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Murgatroyd My response to this is simple. If people are genuinely worried about health effects from mobile phone radiation at schools, they should actively ban all mobile phones as well as masts. Since the health effects seem to be genuine in peoples minds, and more so with relation to mast radiation, then any realistic risk assessment can only lead to a complete ban on all mobiles and masts on school premises. If the risk assessment leads to a conclusion that there is no risk, then surely it smacks of hysteria to ban JUST the masts but leave the LARGER source of PERSONAL radiation exposure on the premises ? The health risk from masts is unknown ? So, the health risks from the 'phones themselves must also be unknown. You cannot realistically ban one without banning the other.
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#12 Posted : 12 December 2006 21:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Daljit Sehmbi All, I am seeking information as a school governor. It is my responsibility to the parents and children to get the information and provide this information to the parents of the children for my school. Without information from the professionals on this forum where else does one go to seek help. Surely if the health effects of phone masts are unknown why then are they being placed in densley populated areas. Within the same areas and 1/2 mile away from the school the company already has a phone mast. So one further question Looking at PPG8 - Telecommunications from the following URL http://www.communities.g...asp?id=1143966#TopOfPage Macrocells provide the main structure for the base station network. The base stations for macrocells have power outputs of tens of watts and communicate with phones up to about 35 kilometres (22 miles) distant. Anybody know where I can find out the equivalent information about UMTS ? Please remember I am trying to get the information and nothing else.
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#13 Posted : 13 December 2006 01:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Murgatroyd Universal Mobile Telecommunication System ? Presumably you mean 3G. Since the frequencies are not very different from 1.8/1.9Ghz GSM, I suggest you read them as the same.
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#14 Posted : 13 December 2006 10:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By IOSH Moderator Daljit, Welcome to the forums. As you will now have realised the topic is quite emotive and is likely to elicit strongly felt responses. All, please be aware of the Acceptable User Guidelines when you post. They can be found in the top right corner of the screen under "section links". Regards Jonathan Breeze IOSH Moderator
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#15 Posted : 13 December 2006 10:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze With my forum user hat on now: Are you aware of the recent Cohort study that has been published in Denmark, that appears to show no increased cancer risk in mobile phone users? The final sentence of the abstract states: "We found no evidence for an association between tumor risk and cellular telephone use among either short-term or long-term users. Moreover, the narrow confidence intervals provide evidence that any large association of risk of cancer and cellular telephone use can be excluded." I don't think it refers specifically to masts, but it may still be of interest. Details can be found at: http://jncicancerspectru...abstract/jnci;98/23/1707 Hope this is of use. Jon
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#16 Posted : 13 December 2006 14:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bill Elliott Daljit - try logging on to these web pages - they may be able to assist you in your search for info. www.mobilemastinfo.com www.apmobile.org.uk/apmobile%20rpt%203.pdf or try the Health Protection Agency and type "Mobile Phone Masts" in the search. Good Luck
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#17 Posted : 13 December 2006 14:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By GSP ALL OFFICIAL investigative reports into mast/radiation given off by them etc, have concluded that there are NO conclusive ill effect. That's all they need to know in my opinion. After all I'm sure they have done RA's before deciding on the location and getting planning permission ;)
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#18 Posted : 13 December 2006 16:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Fred Pratley Daljit, The website www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk will give you the locations of masts and details of operators. Commonly these are shared by operators and the planning permission will give details about the mast, power output etc. Obviously I do not know the area of your school, but if it is planned to object, parents should write as individuals to the relevant authority and loacal MP as these tend to "weigh heavier" than a multi-signature petition. Grounds for objection vary, but I believe the strongest case is made if the mast is wanted by a single operator who does not have great coverage and cannot buy into an existing mast, so they need their own but this may be viewed as unnecessarily increasing the number of masts in your area. As has been said, currently there is no hard evidence of ill health effects - however, I personally feel that around schools with very young children, the precautionary principle should apply - Don't do it till you know its safe! I trust this helps.
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#19 Posted : 13 December 2006 21:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Murgatroyd If you follow the precautionery principle to its illogical conclusion, you would not let children out anywhere, at any time. I may point-out that children are happily let-out to play in the sunshine. This is inspite of more-than-adequate knowledge that repeated exposure to UV radiation will lead to an enhanced risk of skin cancer. Unfortunately, people are more than happy [in the case of mobile phones] to use the "if you cannot prove they are safe they must be dangerous" precautionery principle. IE: Nothing in this life is safe. Even life itself is dangerous, everyone dies of living.
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#20 Posted : 14 December 2006 08:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Fred Pratley Perhaps i should rephrase Don't do it until you understand the risk - and being as that risk is to other people's children, don't do it if they don't want it. Yes, if you take the precautionary principle to mean that if it is not proven safe its dangerous, then life becomes impossible. On the other hand, I suspect its keeping many H&S folk happily employed! Fred
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#21 Posted : 14 December 2006 09:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By jackw. Hi, As is apparent from the answers here and research in general that there is no real conclusive evidence either way on these masts. I believe some LA's in Scotland have banned these from school grounds: both Glasgow and North Lanarkshire Councils will not allow them. Might be useful to contact their education departments and find out exactly why. Hope this helps cheers
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#22 Posted : 14 December 2006 18:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alan Nicholls Mobile phone masts use directional antennas called sector antennas, they propagate the energy in a fan shaped beam typically 120 degrees in the horizontal plane and 6- 10 degrees in the vertical plane. Therefore most of the energy is directed well above structures near the antenna. So higher is better. The power used is low, if a site has say 21 channels and each operates at 100 w ERP the power density at 500 feet in the main beam of the antenna would be less than 1 millionth of a watt per sq/centimetre, at 200 feet from the base of the mast it would be 1micro Watt/cm2. The safety standard used for exposure of the public in the US/ Western world. The conclusion is that in 24 hour / day exposure at levels below 500micro Watts/cm2is safe. This standard incorporates large factors of safety. These were set when power was in the region of Kilowatt's and Mega-Watts for broadcast and TV transmitters. Draw your own conclusions. Regards Alan N
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