Posted By Anders Molko
Here in Ireland as we all know there is a smoking ban in the workplace. But in my place smokers go out the back (through a fire exit door that everyone uses for access and egress) and they leave the door open while smoking. This makes the whole office freezing. 50% of the office smoke and they dont mind, but the non-smokers do.

There is no other door that can be used (as the front main entrance door has customers coming in and out and wouldnt look very professional) so I dont know what to do.

Any suggestions?

Posted By Robert.
Auto closure and link the door open mode to an audible overhead electrically operated buzzer that gets on peoples nerves

Posted By SeanThompson
Damn inconsiderate non-smokers! what right do they have to complain about the cold?!

The smokers deserve there cigarette break while the non-smokers carry on working.

Posted By IOSH Moderator
Okay...

I think this is an opportune moment to alert all posters and readers to the new AUG 8:

"Remember that our forums are used worldwide. When you respond to a question, take into account legislation, cultural differences and language (for example, English may not be the first language of other subscribers participating in the forum). Humour often doesn’t translate across cultural boundaries and its use may not be appropriate."

However, I don't intend to make it too easy for our readers - you will still have to work out for yourselves which responses are using irony or being tongue in cheek.

Regards

Jonathan Breeze

Posted By Lilian McCartney
Similar smoking regs here in Scotland.

Our employees have to move away from the building to stop smoke coming in door or window, preferably away from the main puclic access door.

As most of our workplaces are actually someone own home the employee can smoke 'out the back' and not out the front.

I owuld change door type so they can get back in, possibly on some sort of securty swipe if required.

Lilian

Posted By Robert.
Could even fit an over-door heater ----------that would solve it!

Posted By Sean Fraser
The junkies should be considerate like their hard-user cousins, and do it away from the sight of normal, decent folk. Close the door on them. Don't like it? Then give up your dangerous and filthy habit.

Actually, sarcasm apart, we still have a duty to ALL of our employees while they conduct themselves in a legal manner on our site, regardless of whether it is directly work related or not. Encourage them to wear warm clothing and perhaps provide shelter from the wind/rain so their own health is not adversely affected by the elements, but there is no reason for them to be inconsiderate by keeping the door open. It is also environmentally unfriendly (another thing to add to my list of damage done by smokers) and costs you money in additional and unnecessary heating costs.

The smokers on the forum will be for the junkies. The rest of us will note that the UK health safety and welfare regs place a duty on us to look after the comfort of the non-smokers. A cleverly worded piece of legislation. If you have something similar in Eire, then there is your hook.

Oh, and if you are going to flame me with the smokers version of holocaust denial (it's not unhealthy, it's a matter of personal choice, it underpins everything we mean about freedom, I can spend my money as I wish, it's not illegal), then go ahead. Thick skinned as well as thick headed. Remember - this is a legal drug and the people who use it are addicts. Pure and simple. If they weren't, then why do they "need" to smoke during working hours?

Well done Ireland for being first, and I for one am delighted to live in a smoke-free Scotland.

Posted By IOSH Moderator
All,

After discussion, we have agreed to reopen this thread.

Now play fair and no one is to compare anyone to a Nazi, or Holocaust Denier etc.

That way, reasoned discussion does not lie!

...Oh, and if you can, try and answer the initial question.

Happy Christmas *:-)

Jon

Posted By Catman
Hi All

My view is that the legislation is intended to protect staff from the effects of passive smoking.

With that in mind and the fact that staff standing at an open door almost always causes smoke to blow back into the building (numerous complaints from non smokers about their clothes smelling of smoke), I banned smoking within 5 metres of the door or openable windows.

I have heard all the arguments about liability for smokers forced to go off premises during paid time to have a smoke, possibly being injured, sorry but there must be some modicum of common sense and personal responsibility. I could also be run over going for my bacon buttie, as they wont let me cook it in house.

I think its insane to enforce a 50% open perimeter for a bus shelter type arrangement in the car park and yet have nothing to stop smokers standing right outside the doorway.

Cheers
TW

Posted By Robert.
Well Anders, see what you've started.
this thread has gone off course from providing reasonably practical ideas about your door to the holier than thou moral crusaders describing smokers as filthy, nasty people.
At the end of the day, "We're a' Jock Thomsons bairns".And, we're all different and entitled to our views.
I hope you get your door issue solved.
By the way is'nt the smoking ban intended to protect the whole nation and not just "those at work"? I sit on the fence.

Merry Christmas

Posted By jackw.
Hi all. Firstly i will admit to being anti smoking mostly on health grounds and being selfish and having made it through cancer I am very happy to be in smoke fee Scotland. However I really feel that this constant slanging match re smokers/non smokers on this forum should stop. I have lost count of the number of similar threads that degenerate into "us and them" rhetoric... enough i say, it demeans the site and those that participate.

A merry and peaceful Xmas to all and I hope 2007 brings all you hope for..including all you smokers.

CHEEEEEERSSSSSSSSSSSS !!

Posted By Jim Walker
The post by "moderator" at 10.08 clearly breaches New AUG 8.


If I read that as an English as second language, I doubt I'd see sarcasm in "to compare anyone to a Nazi, or Holocaust Denier etc." As there was no reference to such anywhere else in the thread.

These new AUGs are a can of worms and it is sure to end in tears as policically incorrect /insensitive opinions can no long be expressed. On past performance I give myself about three weeks before I get banned.

According to new rules - "moderator" should now be on first written warning and heading for a ban - Or am I getting too surreal here?

Posted By Brian John Abbs
Anders,
Back on thread,
I may be reading something into this, so please tell me if I'm wrong.

The reason the door is left open is that, being a fire door, there is no way for the smokers to get back in once they have finished their smoke. The solution then would be to change the door furniture to allow access from the outside. There are externally lockable units available that still operate as a crash bar from the interior of the building.

The smokers can still smoke, the building remains secure, the office maintains a professional appearance, and the non smokers don't get too cold. All conditions satisfied.

If you have trouble persuading management, point them in the direction of the Fire Precautions Act 1971 and the £5000 fine per wedged open fire door found.

Jonathan,
No need for apology, I was pleased to see the reference to Godwin's law.

Have a good Christmas all.
Brian

Posted By Lilian McCartney
Hi Folks,

Yes it's good to have fresh air but sometimes its a bit too 'fresh'.

There are some of us with medical conditions which cold air drafts can make worse and sitting in it is more than annoyiing. It can lead to pain.

So, as I suggested before, change the door to one which can be opened/closed and put a security swipe on it if required.

Although I'm not a smoker I believe that it isn't that easy to give up and sometimes smoking gets smokers through a bad day/time.

With everybody acting responsibly and considering others then we'll be ok.
I can only dream that this will happen all the time cos sometimes, when we're harassed, we can get very emotive about some things.

Take care all

Lilian