over night stay....

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Admin		#1 Posted : 21 December 2006 12:01:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest		Posted By holmezy I have just been informed that one of our sites allows a driver to park his lorry overnight in our yard.Other than the driver, the yard is not manned by our employees at night.Apparently this was agreed by the site manager and a Director without any consultation or involvement with any other party. The site manager seems to think that this is a good thing because "the driver acts as our security guard" My concerns are too many to list but include driver being alone, accident, first aid, violence from intruders, insurance cover etc. Without wanting to be a "killjoy" in the season of goodwill, this doesnt help me sleeping, and I would like to stop it, or if the director wants to continue to let this happen, then thats ok, providing he knows what the consequencies are. Anyone had anything similar? Holmezy


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Admin		#2 Posted : 21 December 2006 12:37:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest		Posted By Glyn Atkinson Inform your insurers immediately - You may be contravening small print clauses in your cover allowing a third party lone person presence overnight on your site without telling them !! Does this person have access to welfare facilities like toilets or kitchens overnight?


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Admin		#3 Posted : 21 December 2006 12:38:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest		Posted By Jimmy R Not had anything too similar but it sounds like both parties are benefiting from this arrangement so it would prove interesting case law? Notwithstanding this the requirement to help ensure the HS&W on non employees would require that a risk assessment should be carried out to help determine control measures for the safety of the driver and his property.


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Admin		#4 Posted : 21 December 2006 15:19:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest		Posted By Tabs I cannot see any liability beyond any damage caused to either lorry or driver by the building/gate/fence/etc falling on either of them. Is the driver one of your employees? Is the lorry their own or does it belong to the company? Is the yard enclosed or open? For all the other concerns you have to establish whether the driver is "at work". I would suggest that he/she isn't - this extends far too long into the private life. I seriously doubt insurance companies would go into that level of detail.


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Admin		#5 Posted : 21 December 2006 15:41:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest		Posted By Lilian McCartney I can see why your concerned. Apart from whatever is on site and his access to it what if this person was hurt by an intruder that he felt obliged to confront. What would that outcome be. espcially if the site manager thinks the drivers presence there is good for security?


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Admin		#6 Posted : 21 December 2006 16:01:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest		Posted By David Bannister Holmezy, why seek to stop it? Why not accept that there are benefits to this arrangement on both sides and ensure that you have reasonable H&S and security arrangements in place. If the cost of these arrangements is higher than the benefit then this may influence your decision. Establish with the driver agreed arrival and departure times and that he is not introducing hazardous materials on to your site, or that he is loaded with highly attractive goods (if it's single malt whisky please let me know the location, off line). Agree with him that he has no duty or there is no expectation by you for him to tackle any intruders. If he needs your welfare facilities, agree an access arrangement. He will have a mobile phone to call assistance if needed. Agree that you will not accept any liability for injury or damage. Get all this in writing (fat chance). Inform your insurers and press for a premium reduction due to the manned security presence! What "real" increased risk is there here, beyond a perception that it is bad? If however, there is a genuine increased risk that cannot be reduced, then let the Director make the decision given the full knowledge. Is there any monetary consideration here, either official or not?


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Admin		#7 Posted : 21 December 2006 16:33:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest		Posted By Andy Brazier Seems to be some good advice about how to allow it. If he is not allowed to stay in your yard, he'll probably end up on a lay-by somewhere. Will that help you sleep any better?


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Admin		#8 Posted : 22 December 2006 10:03:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest		Posted By holmezy Thanks for all your comments.... some points to clarify... driver is not an employee could be a different driver on different nights lorry is not our vehicle yard is not lit at night Ok to walk round in the daylight, but allsorts of trip hazards at night? No security presence, but gates are locked so lorry cant go anywhere until we arrive in the morning. toilets and a shower are available site is in a none too pleasant area, on the banks of a major river. My concern is that we are allowing a non employee, (ie visitor) to have free access around our yard, on his own, in the middle of the night. What happens if we turn up for work in the morning and find him injured, unconcious, dead etc. Not looking to stop staying, but would like to feel comfortable with it, at the moment, I dont!


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Admin		#9 Posted : 22 December 2006 10:48:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest		Posted By Dave Wilson I really do not see an issue here, A risk Assessment for what? How likely is this person going to suffer any injury? Do you have a history of violent intruders etc. if not what's the issue. How many driver are found dead in the morning after sleeping ? this so unlikely so no RA. Stop beating yourself up and crack on would be my advice.


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Admin		#10 Posted : 22 December 2006 12:38:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest		Posted By John_Webster I'm with Dave. Provided that he is aware of any specific hazards on your site, and any you may subsequently introduce, then there really isn't anything you should loose sleep over. As for a dark site with trip hazards, I'm sure he already has the standard control measure - a torch. My one concern is that he appears to be locked in. If he needed to, could he get out of the yard or alternatively could he let someone (eg a doctor or paramedic) in if he needed them?


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Admin		#11 Posted : 30 December 2006 12:27:00(UTC)
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