Posted By Phillipe I just wanted to gauge some feedback regarding disciplinary procedures for employees when it comes to health and safety rule breaking. Where do you all stand on this subject? At what point is it OK to discipline employees where their actions have led to injury/accident/near miss etc? I am consulting with our HR dept who are OK in principle to using disciplinary procedures providing the training had been applied in the first place and the individual was aware of the correct procedures. Thanks Phil

Posted By Ian G Hutchings Phillipe I agree that an investigation and disciplinary process should be entirely separate. However if someone has broken a rule a disciplinary procedure should be applied as the last resort. This is a minefield but I do believe that discipline should be applied in the same way that it would do for any other breach, depending on severity/potential severity. From a behavioural perspective the rules need to be very clear, people trained and understand the reasoning and re-enforcement applied to a certain degree. If the violation continues it is then time to put the disciplinary process into effect. Level of discipline will depend on the breach. For example if someone willingly violates a confined space entry permit having been fully aware/trained etc I believe immediate dismissal is warranted. Less severe violations (not wearing safety glasses etc.) may warrant a warning and then ramp up of severity on each occassion. There are aspects that need to be fully in place before discipline, including the educative approach and leadership example and re-enforcement. All the ducks need to be in a row before the full weight of the stick comes into play. There is a view that once formal discipline is used then management has failed at some point in time. Sometimes you have to use discipline to protect people and send a clear and consistent message. Good quality leadership and coaching will hopefully prevent you from going down this route too often. All the best Ian

Posted By Paul Mahoney Phillipe, There is a place for disciplinary procedures, but, they should be used sparingly, thoughtfully,consistently, and, always against a clearly defined and well communicated set of standards. So, if and when DP has to be used, it shouldn't come as a shock. As has already been stated, DP should always be seperated from the S&H incident investigation process. Some organisations call these, 'inviolable standards' or 'golden rules'. Paul.

Posted By Pete48 Phillipe, I generally agree with previous posts about discipline being a separate matter from the H&S systems. If you have clear and unequivocal standards for H&S that are on the same basis as your other business standards then there should not be any issue about what and when. H&S should not have different disciplinary standards just different detailed criteria. I would not hesitate to use disciplinary procedures wherever individual, wilful disregard and/or positive action to deny or ignore published safety rules is established beyond all reasonable doubt. There are well known and used criteria for disciplinary procedures that your HR colleagues would manage and these should be used. The problem often arises, especially with H&S where somehow all failures are deemed critical, where the action taken is either not appropriate for the level of sub standard performance or it is not sub-standard performance by the employee that is the real cause of the accident. It is important that ALL relevant sub-standard performance is covered and that passive failures are not attributed to individuals. Example, persistent lateness of one individual may well result in DP after investaigation. Local problems affecting access to the office that affect everyone, are beyond the controol of the employee and cause more general lateness amongst many employees would not follow DP but a more reasoned approach. H&S is just the same. The hidden problem of not using the disciplinary procedure when it is appropriate is that employees will lose respect for H&S and see the rules as unenforceable or irrelevant. (Just drive through a temporary speed restriction on the highway where there are no cameras or patrols and you will see exactly what I mean about lack of respect for unenforced rules)

Posted By Ian P If somebody causes an accident by doing or not doing something they would be reasonably expected to do or not do then disciplinary if not legal action should follow but otherwise it could turn in to a blame culture. I leave that to our HR people, passing the buck I know but threats of being dismissed are not a helpful addition to a positive H&S culture.