Posted By Darren J Fraser I can see this becoming a good debate. Personally I would ask the MD to put their comments into writing so that accept responsibility, would then contact the HSE anon and watch the fireworks. If the MD refuses to put it in writing would then inform them that it was being reported, worse thing they can then do is terminate contract, which would most likely be successfully challenged in an employment tribunal as unfair dismissal, of course if the local paer just happened to here about the tribunal hearing, the damage to reputation etc would be significant. I appreciate that not everyone would agree with the above course of action, and to be honest it would be my absolute last resort, hopefully by the time I had asked the MD for comments in writing, they would have appreciated the difficult position that they had placed their employee in and backed the decision to report.

Posted By Paul Leadbetter Ian If your friend subscribes to the IOSH code of conduct, I think he is professionally obliged to report the incidents. However, he should try to persuade the MD to agree before doing so. Paul

Posted By Emyr Evans I would have thought that the company safety policy (organisation & arrangements section) should state who within the company is responsible for accident investigation & informing the HSE (Riddor) + insurance company etc. If this is the case - then that named person / position is legally required on behalf of the employer to comply with the law. My guess is that this has not been defined in writing, therefore management are taking ownership. If this was me, I'd send a dated letter to the top person detailing the need to comply, and based on this persons knowledge of his legal obligations, possibly quote the Riddor requirements & consequences of non-complying, and ask a written response for my records. The top person may want to not report to: avoid prosecution / HSE investigation personal gain in a bonus scheme that may be dependent on accident rates maintain good accident rates to help gain contracts with other clients. Reporting it to the HSE is not the be-all and end-all, if the accidents in November were properly investigated and suitable lessons learnt from the accidents then the company may wan to move on. Do they need re-investigating based on the losses incurred by the infections? Was this down to lack of first aid provision, or medical treatment at the time. Did the employees return to work and risk infection against medical advice - if so was this due to pressure by management? - or fear of loss of earnings? Plenty for your friend to look at and investigate

Posted By Lee Mac Ian, Darren hits the nail on the head, at the end of the day, if your "friend" has it in the form of a written instruction from the MD that he is not to report then at least he has some fall back. Word of mouth is not worth much to the HSE. However, the problem is he may not get this. But if he received this from the main man who is ultimately responsible for H&S this is then the person the HSE will be mainly aiming for, but I would say your friend will probably get his knuckles rapped a little. If your friend disregards the MD instruction, you & I both know the MD will be breathing down his neck for the slightest of a slip up.

Posted By JPK Sorry... In addition, maybe your friend could print off and leave a copy of this on his desk, that may help explain RIDDOR a little more! http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse31.pdf Maybe the ignorance of the regs is the MD's problem and he is scared! IITS may even help at the highest levels!

Posted By garyh If you follow the IOSH code of conduct, I believe that your action in this case depends on whether you have an advisory or executive role. In my experience very few Safety managers however have the "executive" power.

Posted By Christopher If your friends manager is giving a direction that the organisation will not comply with statutory legislation, does your friend not have a duty to go over his head. Surely he has a responsibility to make his manager's manager aware of his concerns. After all what other illegal advice could he be given. I would have thought he would not be complying with his organisations health and safety policy.

Posted By I McDonald Christopher we must have been typing at the same time. The instruction is from the MD (top of the food chain). No where higher in the organisation to report it to - that's the dilemma!! Does he have any criminal liability? I still think "No". Ian

Posted By Sean Fraser The instant one of the injured parties makes a claim for compensation, it will be found straight away that it was not reported to HSE under RIDDOR. The pursuer will end up telling the employer what figure to write out on the cheque, and the insurer will probably sue for compensation on any pay-out they were forced to make. So does the MD realise that this cannot be "hushed up" and kept "in the family", and it could all blow-up from another source? ESPECIALLY if the injured parties are secretly targeted for redundancy or forced out of work! I realise this is a personal dilemma but thought I would add this to the persuasion element when trying to convince the board to make the report. And of course, time is running out . . . report too late and questions will be asked. Clock ticking . . . sweating . . . fingernails being bitten to the quick . . .

Posted By Paul Leaman Quote*The instant one of the injured parties makes a claim for compensation, it will be found straight away that it was not reported to HSE under RIDDOR. The pursuer will end up telling the employer what figure to write out on the cheque* Straight up they will! Another one of our past misdemeanours that crept up and bit the company on the bum. They learnt their lesson.

Posted By Raymond Rapp I believe this type of practice is common place, albeit normally more insidious in the construction/rail industries. For the sole purpose of impressing the Client to win more contracts. If the same scenario as originally described happened to me, I fear would have to put my concerns in writing detailing the legal obligations. That failing, I would consider invoking the 'whistleblower' statutory provision, but not before I sought legal advice; it is unfortunately a very complex and poorly formulated piece of legislation. I wish the HSE would start investigating organisations, some of whom are household names, and then prosecuting offenders for RIDDOR offences. Regards Ray

Posted By I McDonald Thank you all for your response so far. They have been very interesting and helpful. To update the plight of my friend, he said "stuff the MD" and reported anyway and my meeting yesterday has provided him an open door should his current employer make life difficult for him. In short - SORTED! I would however; like to ask the question again although now hypothetical. If it had gone non-reported, HSE discovered this and sought prosecution, would he individually have been liable and open to prosecution. Forgive me if this becomes long winded. In my opinion, the responsibility to provide competent H&S assistance under reg7 would have been discharged because: 1 - The MD (call him the "Employer") had been advised of the situation and the legal requirement to report under RIDDOR; 2 - In reporting the mater to the MD first, the organisation H&S Policy had been complied with (Even a SHE Manager is after all an employee with a mortgage); 3 - When instructed not to report, in discharging his responsibility he put the arguments of possible claims, prosecution, etc, to try and ensure the legal reporting requirements were complied with; To me, he has done his job!!! To me, it is as clear as crystal that he has discharged his responsibilities as fully and competently as possible............until yesterday when talking to a fellow SHE Professional in a pub who then made it as clear as mud!!! What about "an individual who knowingly allows the corporate body to commit an offence.........". This made me think a bit!!! Has not changed my mind but sows a niggling seed of doubt. I do not think the intent of the Act in respect of this, would apply to a situation like this. I suppose I am looking for others opinions, probably selfishly, to make it clear as crystal again. I ask the question again, would he have been individually open to prosecution?? Ian P.S. I acknowledge and practice to the code of conduct as does he (that's why it has been reported)

Posted By Dave Wilson Ian, The HSE / LA would most definitely go for the MD / Company it would not be in the public interests to go for the H&S manager et

Posted By I McDonald Dave/Diane thanks for your responses - totally agree and clarity returns!!! Ian