Posted By Paul Leaman
The property is a large glass atrium type showroom, the glass stretches from floor to ceiling - a height of approx 30-40 feet in old fashioned money. At approximately the half way point the building has a metal beam that runs the full diameter of the building. It is standard practice for the window cleaner to stand on this beam to clean the windows. If he were to slip and fall he would fall 15 feet hitting the tiled floor and/or a static display vehicle parked below, no doubt resulting in a rather nasty injury if not death.

I have spoken to the window cleaner (a self employed lone worker) advising him of my concerns and other safer methods of working, and have told him that his current methods are unacceptable but he has told me in no uncertain terms what I can do with my advice and that he will not be buying suitable equipment just so he can clean this one building. The property owners will not consider purchasing it either.

I have written several memo's and have spoken to Senior Management about this situation with little (read 'NO') effect whatsoever... They are happy with the cleaner they have and will not consider tendering the business to anyone else. (He has been with the company since it opened six years ago.. and he's cheap! ) (Yes, I know all the sayings about 'cheap'!)

I have completed a Risk Assessment for the task in hand but without action on someones part it has little use except that of fish & chip wrapping. I am now at a loose end... both parties are in agreement that they know best and "..anyway, It's never happened yet has it?"

With so many far more experienced H&S people here on this forum than I, I am asking for your advice.. Do I leave it and sit on my hands knowing I've tried to do my job? Or do I press on? Where do I go from here? Any advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks.

Paul
(Having a bad day)

Posted By Paul Leaman
Have done the 'Long pole thing' conversation.

The problem is management and how can I get it through their heads that things need to change?

Posted By Makka
When he arrives to do the work, stop him climbing up, do this repeatedly until he gets the message. also let your financial people know that they should not pay him as he has not completed the work.

At the same time press upper management (company directors etc) with your report on why this is a dangerous act and what they could be liable for in teh event of a serious accident / death. Also invite HSE inspector in for when the window cleaner is on site.

Posted By MAK
obviously the approaches you have tried are falling on deaf ears so have you tried presentating them with a cost exercise? i.e a financial comparison showing the cost of taking no action.
you can find some actual prosecution costs based on previous cases and in the event of HSE becoming involved and finding the company in breach of several sets of regulations not least the HSWA 1974. Demonstrate the projected costs in the the event the window cleaner falls and has a severe injury i.e costs of legal defence, compensation, loss of earnings,increases in employer liability premiums. both cases should consider the This should include potential costs associated with the loss of prestige caused by adverse publicity.

Tread gently, whichever path you decide on now, the wrong approach may cause the directors to become even more resistant to change on the next issue.

Best Regards

Posted By Dave Wilson
What you should do is tell them that if he falls then they will also be responsible and it is them who will get the fine and or imprisonment as well as the window cleaner as they are in flagrant disregard for statute law, eg HASA s2/ 3 and the WAH Regs 05.

Also another point when the HSE look to prosecute one of the MAIN things which are taken into consideration is 'if the employer carried on with the work on the grounds of cost! they would always look to prosecute with the full weight of the law.

Posted By ITK CMIOSH
With regards to colleagues comments regarding contacting the HSE, the workplace you describe is likely to be enforced by Local Authority, not HSE.

ITK

Posted By Glyn Atkinson
I know you won't, and probably shouldn't either,

....but.....

here's a thought!

Wait till he's up there and remove the ladder !

Then ask him how safe he feels !

or -

Ask your manager if he wants a risk assessment on blood removal from vehicles, and ask him how he would explain the damage to a display vehicle by a strewn body.

or -

The local newspaper would also love to take photos for this type of story, I'm sure !

You might even find that his cheapness is not tax declarable ??

Wouldn't want photos then ??

Ask your accounts how he is paid - if it's from petty cash - become VERY MEAN !!

or -

A video running when you're asking him to reconsider his method (with sound and dated) would be powerful protection in YOUR defence !

or -

Copy your next memo into your local HSE Inspector or Environmental Health Officer !

Numbers in Yellow Pages !!

What you must do is cover yourself so that you have given both parties every chance (in writing) to comply with your safety request.

Sorry, as I have stated in other threads, I have no time for idiots who put others' lives at risk or just do not care as long as the work is done !

Posted By CW
Get a copy of the 'Secret Syphon' video and play it to your boss.

Posted By garyh
But surely this is a classic situation, where we are the only person who sees the problem; everyone else thinks that this way is OK, done it this way for years, and so on. This will never change as it is human nature.

If all we had to do was to quote the regs to people, then we wouldn't be needed - any fool can read from a bit of paper.

We are paid to MANAGE and ADVISE and INFLUENCE; long may it stay so.

Generally you have to do this by your problem solving, interpersonal and influencing skills.

It's what the job is all about, in my view.

Posted By Jason911
don't you mean drink till we manage to completely blot out reality and forget that we started in this job because we actually believed that we could make a difference, but in actual fact unsafe practice will just go on and on forever and the older and more cynical you become it eventually dawns on you that your whole life is just a series of distractions until you die?

Just kidding. It is nearly Friday.

Jay

Posted By Pete48
Paul, is it a place that the public might visit to view or purchase? If so have you got any "safety" buddies who could somehow decide to visit the showroom at an opportune moment?If they just happened to see the obviously
unsafe act(based on your description of it in this post)then they might just also choose to report it to the local enforcement authority? No link to you making a report and compromising your contract with your employers.
What does your job description say about your delegated authority (from the MD oer whoever) to stop work where you consider there is an immediate danger?? Perhaps that is the next discussion with your boss. Or maybe having that conversation is a better angle to start with??

Posted By Paul Leaman
I am the Health & Safety Manager for the Motor Group. An outside contracted H&S Consultant wrote the Health & Safety Policy prior to leaving us due to a situation not of their making. Draw your own conclusions there..

I am now carrying the baby. Passed the NatGen Cert and have been kept busy ever since. Currently under close scrutiny by the HSE and have several Improvement notices outstanding. In my honest opinion I am beginning to believe that I am merely being used as 'lip service' to the HSE, however I am trying damn hard to keep the pace up and move the company into the 21st Century... and every day is a fight. I have enough to deal with at the moment with the notices already on my plate however I do keep in close contact with the Inspector and the window cleaning at height situation is one of those things that will be looked at on his return visit.

Delegated Authority? No. Respect? No. Interest in job by Managers? None.

Yes, I have stopped work because of situations, however the lowest point was getting a vehicle lift condemned as unsafe one morning only to find the sticker and lock system taken off by Management and an employee working under a MPV on that very lift because "his manager had told him to use the lift".

It has taken several years to get the staff to even bother to come to me because in their words "No one can be bothered about us" Now I am up against the old guard. One of whom started the whole HSE Improvement notice episode off. The local EHO caught him in the bucket of a JCB at height being driven around a building site with lit Oxy welding equipment as he was working on a new showroom. (Guess I should be thankful ??)

We are moving in the right direction but without the HSE taking the big stick approach we would still be in the dark ages...

Posted By Pugwash
Paul, Sounds like you have a tough job on your hands but pleased to hear that you are making some progress.

Regarding authority to stop work, my advice is that in these circumstances you do not want this authority for yourself. It would reduce your chances of getting managers to take any responsibility for health and safety.

Good luck to you.

Posted By Tony Brunskill
Hear it and forget it. Read it and remember it. See it and understand. Borrow a manikin, place it on top of the car at a suitable distorted angle, cover it with a white sheet. Phone the manager and ask him to pop in, explain the window cleaner problem has been solved but you now have a different issue with the HSE. Bet you he listens.

Posted By Glyn Atkinson
Ah, Tony - classic solution, a man after my own heart here, I can see !!

I would also lay a pair of handcuffs next to the manikin with a size request from the MD in readiness for a call from the local constabulary !!

This case seems to get worse with total lack of safety awareness through other improvement notices being threatened - therefore no problem in adding another through a phone call to the HSE , in my humble opinion !!

As for the JCB incident, the guy needs to be stopped from being a senior Director by force of law - someone's death waiting to happen here !

This person will listen to no one except HSE officialdom or prosecution.