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#1 Posted : 12 January 2007 11:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason McQueen
Wondering I could gather the benefits of the knowledge pool we have here? We have a system at work whereby before using a pool car, the driver must make an inspection of the vehicle for damage and road worthiness. This takes the form of a basic visual check of the bodywork, glass, tyre depth and pressure. To conduct this it takes about 5 minutes.

There have been numerous complaints that the system isnt workable due to the fact that its inconvenient (poor excuse, I know) and that given the use of the cars, it could mean that the same car is inspected numerous times on the same day which its fair to say is over kill.

The argument is that if a weekly or monthly inspection was adopted instead then this wouldnt allow any identification of a problem between inspections which could potentially result in an accident. Theres also the problem of who would actually do the inspection, its unlikely that anyone would want the duty added on to their role and so it seemed the fairest way was to get the end user to do it (the driver).

The cars are under three years old and so do not receive an MOT and faults are only rectified on a verbal report basis at the moment (no regular service or inspection by mechanics).

Im open to views on alternatives with this one because its really starting to annoy me.
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#2 Posted : 12 January 2007 11:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
I occasionally take a hire car and automatically do a walk-round checking for previous damage. I do a quick check on brakes lights, steering and indicators before driving off.

I also have a company car and don't do any of the above.

Merv
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#3 Posted : 12 January 2007 11:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason McQueen
Hi Merv. Is this because you know the company car is maintained or because your sceptical about the condition of the hire car?

Our company cars (one owner/driver) are maintained and the drivers tend to take care of them. The pool cars are a different story however.

My concern is demonstrating that the cars are maintained in a suitable condition and safe to use (given that they are essentially work equipment) as well as having the liability defence of demonstrating the road worthiness of the vehicles.
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#4 Posted : 12 January 2007 12:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By stevehaigh
The following is from the highway code:

6. Vehicle maintainance, safety and security

Vehicle maintenance

Take special care that lights, brakes, steering, exhaust system, seat belts, demisters, wipers and washers are all working. Also

lights, indicators, reflectors, and number plates MUST be kept clean and clear
windscreens and windows MUST be kept clean and free from obstructions to vision
lights MUST be properly adjusted to prevent dazzling other road users. Extra attention needs to be paid to this if the vehicle is heavily loaded
exhaust emissions MUST NOT exceed prescribed levels
ensure your seat, seat belt, head restraint and mirrors are adjusted correctly before you drive
items of luggage are securely stowed.
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#5 Posted : 12 January 2007 12:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Darren J Fraser
It may be worth pointing out to your sceptics that whilst they are driving the vehicle, they have assumed the responsibility of the roadworthiness of that vehicle, and if stopped would be liable for any defects, which could result in points on their licence and a fine. OK they may try and claim the fine back of the company (unlikely to succeed, depending upon several factors such as employment contracts etc), but the points would remain on their licence and when their private insurance is due for renewal, these would need to be declared which could and most likely would increase their own premiums.

E.g. 1 bald or below legal limit tread tyre = 3 points, loss of licence occurs at 12 points or above in most cases.

Therefore it would be in their interest to check the vehicle before each use, but maybe only record it on first use of the day instead of each drive.
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#6 Posted : 12 January 2007 12:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Darren J Fraser
P.S Any chance of a copy of your checklist please.
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#7 Posted : 13 January 2007 12:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Darren got it right. Driver is personally responsible for state of the vehicle. Company may also get done but that would be secondary.

I remember one car from the marketing fleet being used as a pool car for about six months. When we came to sell it we found that someone had swapped engines.

Merv
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#8 Posted : 15 January 2007 08:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason McQueen
Darren, if you drop me an email, I'll forward you what I have.
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#9 Posted : 15 January 2007 08:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason McQueen
Also, whats the general conscensus of opinion of frequency of the inspections? Would once a day suffice or should it be each time a new driver uses the car
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#10 Posted : 15 January 2007 09:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Jason,

I could make a comparison with forklift trucks : A check over by the first driver of the shift.

But suppose pool car driver A takes the car in the morning a busts a headlight and doesn't report it. Driver B takes the car in the afternoon without checking.

Who gets done ?

Merv
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#11 Posted : 15 January 2007 10:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight
Me I think that since I would be principally responsible for the safety of the car I would want to give it a quick once over myself when I picked it up; company does have a DOC, but I would be happier knowing that e.g brakes seemed OK and indicators worked etc,

John
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#12 Posted : 15 January 2007 10:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leaman
In prior employment I worked for a large multi-national car hire company and I can advise that a 52 point safety check was completed on every vehicle that was rented out. Without going into mind numbing detail, these checks included condition of tyres, lights, indicators, number plates in good condition, brake fluid, windscreen washer fluid, oil levels, wiper blades, that every safety belt was undamaged and in working condition and also that the car had a current Tax disc (The driver is liable if it has expired.)(Don't forget to look for a locking wheel nut key if alloy wheels are fitted. It's amazing how many are taken out to prevent theft of alloy wheels!)The procedure was extensive but enables us to fulfill H&S obligations. If a vehicle was rented and returned three times a day it got three checks, our main concern was to ensure it was safe to be on the road when handed to the renter. On courtesy cars at garages we also complete the same checks once a week however as all of these vehicles were/are less than two years old we also relied on the fact that every vehicle was serviced and maintained in accordance with manufacturers recommendations.
On the rental front each safety check was signed off by the person completing it and then resigned by the driver or renter prior to them using the vehicle. On both courtesy cars and hire cars someone with experience should also show the customer the car and how the controls work. If a customer has an accident and the question " Were you shown how to use the controls?" has not been asked then the company could find themselves liable for failing to ensure the safe use of the vehicle. (Many rental companies have an A4 size laminate in the car clearly showing each control - you can find these details in the cars handbooks.)
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#13 Posted : 16 January 2007 13:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Aidan Toner
There is an OFFICIAL?? word on the subject;

I would refer you to
www.direct.gov.uk/Monoto...viceOnKeepingYourVehicle

The general steer(no pun intended) is a weekly check.

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#14 Posted : 16 January 2007 13:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Aidan Toner
And lets try that one more time...!

www.direct.gov.uk/Motoring/Owning....
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#15 Posted : 16 January 2007 15:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Booney
Jason,

in response to your question, we recently created a pool car checklist covering all the points you mentioned and it was agreed for our two auxilliaries to perform the checks on every monday morning which takes them about 10 mins on each pool car (we have three). The checklists are then signed and handed to me for action/filing. All the cars are less than three years old yet it became quickly apparent that one of them had a slow puncture and another was using a lot of oil and I feel neither of these points would have been picked up had the checks not been in place.

The auxilliaries have instructions that any faults are to be reported immediately and keys withdrawn so that the car cannot be used.

I feel that weekly checks suffice as our cars do not generally get used that much and I know this is not a foolproof system but I feel it is much better than relying on the car user to perform the checks as a). they invariably do not do them and b). there's no guarantee that they know how to do them either!

Incidentally, we also bought in consumables such as oil, antifreeze, screenwash etc. (all to the manufacturers spec.)for topping up as necessary, none of which were expensive

Hope this helps

Please feel free to contact me off-line if you wish to have a look at our checklist
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#16 Posted : 18 January 2007 13:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian B
Reading this thread to try and gain some help as i too am having to go through our drivers RA with employees. I have written down certain things i feel need doing and when it comes to checking a vehicle over before taking it out they looked at me as if i was mad. I have seen that people are often willing to pass on info and checklists such as in this instance and say get in contact but there is no contact email given.
I haven't used this site very much and would like to how i can get in direct contact with people (ie Booney or others) as any help on this would be most grateful.

Ian
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#17 Posted : 18 January 2007 15:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By chris edwards
Hi
It may be worth reminding your staff that its their licence, should the vehicle be not roadworthy they could lose their licence and be fined. Another thought would be checks when the vehicle is returned so if any damage has occurred the culprit can be found. But should this be down to the fleet manager.
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