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#1 Posted : 17 January 2007 13:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sharon
Question,

You have carried out a DSE assessment and recommend that a user uses a chair adequate for DSE use.

The user refuses to use the chair, can you enforce the user to use this chair in the same way you can enforce an employee to wear safety glasses.
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#2 Posted : 17 January 2007 13:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By anon1234
What is the reason for refusal?

Are you considering whether the chair being provided is suitable for the individuals needs?

Obviously a 'standard' DSE 'compliant' chair will be fine for the majority but there will always be a few who need something different for whatever legitimate reason (e.g. medical condition)
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#3 Posted : 17 January 2007 13:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sharon
No reason just prefers old chair, the new chair is suitable for the persons needs and DSE compliant.
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#4 Posted : 17 January 2007 13:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By anon1234
If the current chair is not compliant and could give rise to problems due for example to lack of adjustability then I would say it can be enforced
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#5 Posted : 17 January 2007 13:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Darren J Fraser
Firstly, when you carried out the DSE risk assessment did you involve the individual concerned?

Secondly, did you bring one chair or a range of compliant chairs in and give as much choice as possible as to individual preference?

If the answer to both of the above is Yes, then I would suggest you investigate their complaint further (talk to them on a strictly one to one confidential basis), it may be that the older type chair suited a medical condition that you are not aware of (E.g. gave better back support etc).

If you can fully justify why they must use the new type, it may come to the final outcome - being disciplinary measures, and that I would only use once I had exhausted every other possible avenue.



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#6 Posted : 17 January 2007 13:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh
I would advise:-

Get rid of the old chair!

Explain to them why they must use the new chair; should they fall into ill health in future years due to a musculoskeletal problem they will no doubt then sue your organisation for not making them use it!

Consider this like a PPE compliance issue; if they refuse, follow procedure (go to their Manager, in writing if necessary). If all else fails make a note in the file and get them to sign it.
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#7 Posted : 17 January 2007 13:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Descarte
I would, not give them the new chair, but involve them in the selection of another, let them trial 1, 2 or maybe 5 from suppliers so that they find one to which they are most comfy.

Playing devil's advocate here, I bet their old chair is probably really comfy though perhaps not practical and dosnt meet DSE requirements, after 1 week of enforcing the person to use that new chair, they will start developing back pains, or other issues and complaints to which they will then use to make the chair you have purchased obsolete, either pschological or malicious.

Make specific points about why their old chair is impractical or will be causing potential long term damage or injury to their spine, highlighting the reasons as to why this may not be initially felt and will gradually build up over a long period of time. Enquire about dull aches or pains occuring in the back shoulders or neck and say this could be a result of the old chair and a new one would ellieviate this.
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#8 Posted : 17 January 2007 13:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By Simon Hardy
Comments from the previous poster are to expected by Joe Public Mr Synical but I'm surprised to hear them from a expert!
Having an attitude like that "use it or we get sued" is always going to make it difficult to have a positive Health and Safety culture in the workplace. :0)
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#9 Posted : 17 January 2007 13:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker
If you make him use a different chair, I'll put money on it that within 3 months he develops a bad back or similar.

You can lead a horse to water and all that.

You will need psychology, diplomacy and maybe a bit of peer pressure to solve this one

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#10 Posted : 17 January 2007 13:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Diane Thomason
Surely if you have recommended he uses a new chair it's just that - a recommendation?

Was the old chair causing him to be in a bad posture for DSE use? if not, is there really that much of a problem letting him continue to use it?

I expect it's different in other organisations but I personally cannot "make" someone comply with something like this - that if necessary would be the job of their line manager, and for that reason, DSE assessments go to line managers for action.
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#11 Posted : 17 January 2007 14:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter
er.........Section 7 of the HASAWA?
Throw the old chair in the skip!
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#12 Posted : 17 January 2007 14:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Glyn Atkinson
If the chair obviously does not comply with the DSE requirements, then you have got your decision made in front of you - "hello, skip !"

The person will probably be less likely to be obstructive once the object of desire has hit the bin!

Without prying too much - does the chair user have any physical attributes that would make the procurement of a suitable chair awkward in any way?

Has the question been adequately dealt with during the written assessment questions?
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#13 Posted : 17 January 2007 15:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Edward Shyer
Sharon,

Is there anything wrong with the old chair? Does it comply with present DSE regs?

If the answer is NO and Yes respectively why change the chair.

One of the problems in modern offices is that they are sometimes refurbished and a new colour scheme is introduced and employees are given new chairs that are although compliant are not of the same standard as the original chairs.

In answer to your question YES you can enforce its use in accordance with your company procedures, and use section 7 HASWA for the disciplinary route, But is this not like taking a sledge hammer to crack a peanut.

Many employees spend a lot of time at their workstations (even with regular breaks) the need to be comfortable is paramount. So as some earlier responses have stated it is worth spending time and effort now with the individual and to get them to voluntary agree to the most suitable chair available.

Regards

Ted

P's Still using a garden chair at my workstation!!!

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#14 Posted : 17 January 2007 15:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Christopher
Hi Sharon

What prompted this DSE assessment to take place? If this was simply a company update on assessments, was it communicated to all what the potential outcomes of the assessment might be? Is this workstation a communal DSE station? Before threatening paperwork, try negotiating over a cup of tea. (It sounds soft but it works) If you have Occupational Health input, suggest that if the individual would prefer to talk to someone else in confidence about health issues that this could be arranged. You're only trying to do your best for this employee, however, the nice, nice approach should only end up with the paper work signed, but left open and the employee advised that you will revisit this assessment in three months, but he/she can if they wish change their mind before then. Most suppliers of chairs will let you try them out for a week. If anyone goes on holiday, then they can try out their chairs.

Can the chair be that unsafe that an individual has been allowed to keep on using it, until they are effectively treating it like their arm chair at home?
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#15 Posted : 17 January 2007 15:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Longworth
I actually know Sharon very well and I could see this problem cropping up a few days ago. What has happened is that the office decor has been changed to comply with the new corporate colour scheme which is a sort of pastel green. The chair in question is upholstered in red which causes obvious problems ( colour clash, eye strain etc). I would bin the chair if I were you Sharon.
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#16 Posted : 17 January 2007 15:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Edward Shyer
Hi Peter,

Beg to differ Colour clash YES But where does the eye strain come in?

If this is a problem then was it identified earlier on the DSE assessment as eye strain caused by colour of chair.

Regards

Ted
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#17 Posted : 17 January 2007 15:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Longworth
Hello Ted
You haven't seen the shade of red (more over a shocking pink to be honest). As for whether Sharon identified it as a problem, you would have to ask her about that one.
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#18 Posted : 17 January 2007 16:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Edward Shyer
Peter,

You are correct I should be asking Sharon this question.

Sharon,

Please see earlier response

If the colour of this chair is a problem then, was it identified earlier on the DSE assessment as eye strain caused by colour of chair.

if this has been identified as a problem and can be justified and is being highlighted in DSE assessments of other persons in the vicinity then you have reasonable grounds for its removal.

Regards

Ted
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#19 Posted : 17 January 2007 16:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sharon
Ted, Peter is winding you up.....Peter your tea will be in the dog when you get home!!
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#20 Posted : 17 January 2007 16:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Edward Shyer
Sharon,

Nothing wrong with friendly windups, So please do not give the dog Peter's tea, I am starving give it to me instead. what am I having?

Regards

Ted
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