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#1 Posted : 22 January 2007 21:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By shaun mckeever
During a recent risk assessment for a very large client I identified something which was a bit of a hot potato within his organisation. I was told in no uncertain terms that he did not want that appearing in his report or any reference to it. In my view it is significant. If I include it there is a good chance that I will lose the contract, if I don't include it then I will be compromising my professional integrity. If the contract affected just me then I don't have a problem but the contract covers several disciplines - water, fire, asbestsos etc. I'm sure I'm not the only person to have faced something like this.

How have others on this forum dealt with similar issues?
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#2 Posted : 22 January 2007 21:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By RP
OK.

He/she is aware of it and to cover yourself leave it out of the main report but include a separate advisory letter directed at him.

Keep a copy of the report and letter of advice given.

If your contract asked for a detailed report with no inference of not including any thing then perhaps you could reword it appropriately. If the risk is as you say 'significant' and your are not permitted to even mention it in report or letter then walk away. These thing can come back and haunt you...
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#3 Posted : 22 January 2007 22:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pete48
Shaun,
Check yourself against another specialist in this area to make sure you have a benchmark for your findings. That is always good advice when faced with difficult decisions. The chances that you are both off the mark are much less. We can all get too close sometimes.
If you both consider that it is significant then I think you have to include it in the report, no choice at all. As has been said, it will return to haunt you if you do not and anyway it is not professional. Just think about how well H&S is likely managed if they are trying to suppress and manage a report just because they don't like what it says? Yes m'lud.
Offering options to resolve the issue, short term fixes to help reduce the "heat" on the problem together with practicable and recommended time frames for the completion of any longer term works can sometimes help to defuse reaction. I often find that reading my reports from the receivers standpoint helps a lot. If it is a difficult issue for them but is significant, have I written it in a way that pushes them into a corner, if so I rewrite it. The only thing you manage from a corner is getting out of it!
I think an e-mail would be seen the same as including it, we all now understand the importance of recorded e-mail don't we? Anyway you are still just including in your report and may well be challenged later as to why you didn't just put it in the report.

Is there anyone else in your company that you need to be talking to? If there is a commercial risk then you probably should be talking internally. The commercial boys can be good allies sometimes in getting clients to see the issues of not allowing a contract to be fulfilled.
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#4 Posted : 22 January 2007 22:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeff Manion
Had this twice, client wanted "things" left out, first one - left it in, they were slated, we were not paid by the instructing client, we lost other work, in the end the end client paid.

Second time - left "things" out, and wrote direct to the client who verbally asked to leave the "things" out, stating our position and then sent them a copy of report twice - one complete, one not so complete, left them to do what they wanted, still have work with them though.

For me, tell them then write and confirm. If it goes wrong you must know what could happen.

It may be useful to talk to the guts who provide the PI.

JM

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#5 Posted : 23 January 2007 00:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim
Hi Shaun,

A rock and a hard place come to mind here!

You say it is significant - The Regs. say you should report the significant findings!

I have personally been there a few times during the past few years and my action has been to ask for my payment up to that point and bow out with my professional integrity intact.

I did lose the Client but there is always another just around the corner.

Look after number 1, whoever you decide that is - either you or the Client?
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#6 Posted : 23 January 2007 07:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham
I always warn my clients before I start any work for them that: "I tell it as I see it. Anything else would not be ethical nor provide you with what you need." I would only work with a client on that basis.

If I were to leave something out of a report at the request of a manager (even the CEO) and then there was an incident, would I not potentially be an accessory to the incident? Thus I feel you actually have no alternative but to include your findings in your report.

In the short term it may lose you business, but you have to ask the question: "Do I really want to be someone known as being prepared to provide whitewash?"

I actually had one manager who wrote on my report "Rubbish" and threw it in the bin. He had to retrieve it later, though!

Chris
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#7 Posted : 23 January 2007 08:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Clive Lowery
You may wish to give them a copy of our code of conduct. In particular point 12.

Publish and be damned I say.


Good Luck whichever way you decide to go.


Clive

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#8 Posted : 23 January 2007 10:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By JPK
If something were to arise from this 'missing part' of the report, and an accident resulting in prosecution occured, do you think that the HSE/Court or anyone else would understand why you left this out of your report???

Subsequently, if IOSH got hold of that info and it was found that you had breached the code of conduct, would they understand??

Your PI insurer would be blacklist you, your instituion would remove you, and you potentially have a big legal problem on your hands!

So any work you intended to do means nothing anymore, as you have not got any legs to stand on, just because one client wanted something left out!

Sorry for the VERY worst case scenario but a very possible one all the same!!
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#9 Posted : 23 January 2007 10:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Christopher
Hi Shaun

This is not such a dissimilar scenario to my thread and the thread that I commenced.

http://www.iosh.co.uk/in...m=1&thread=25056&page=81

In my case a patient died, the incident was not investigated by a health and safety professional (before I commenced in post.) I was given the report which was undertaken by a senior nurse. It was very evident that an inadequate investigation had been undertaken and that the staff, training and procedures involved had contributed towards this young persons death. I made an honest analysis. I was told to take bits out of the report as it might end up in the public domain. The Director who received it made it very clear that she was not happy with my findings. However, any newly qualified professional would have come to the same conclusions. The family were misled. I made all sorts of positive suggestions as to how to address the lessons that could be learnt from this case. I might as well have talked to the hand. My card was effectively marked.

This is a difficult call. The receiver of your somewhat toned down report, should you choose to provide one, should be made aware that in the event of an incident arising, then all the paperwork that you have created will have to be made available. (In writing of course)


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#10 Posted : 23 January 2007 11:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By LIM BOON KHOON
Dear Shaun

I had a similar problem as you when the Project Director requested that I delete the main root cause of a near fatal accident from my investigation report as it affects his commitment towards safety. I tried to rephrase the whole paragraph while maintaining the main cause of the accident. This was not accepted. He repeated for the second and third time while I maintained my position trying to explain the professional integrity that I need to uphold as a true professional. When I stood firm on my decision he was unhappy and eventually my contract was not renewed.

There is no love loss in this contract. What is more important to me was that I was able to stand tall to uphold my professional integrity. Many in the industry including professionals in other disciplines who came to know about this matter supported and congratulated me for not compromising on my professional integrity. Over time, when industry come to know about you and your professional ethics, contracts will come looking for you. I believe in professionalism and it is the order of the day.

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#11 Posted : 23 January 2007 11:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim
Christopher,

I disagree with your final comment. Shaun has to either:

a) Issue his findings without hiding anything,

or,

b) do as his Client asks - no strings attached.

It would be most inappropriate to issue part of the truth and expect to get away scot free by producing the "real" findings at a later date. Are we to believe the Judge would accept that?



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#12 Posted : 23 January 2007 11:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Christopher
Hi Crim

The point that I was trying to make, and may not have done sufficiently clearly, is that if he was called into court as the writer of the report, he may be asked, is there anything missing from the report that you issued, and if so why. He would then I believe be expected to produce the report that he would like to have submitted. (Thus many of the respondents comments would certainly kick in. PI, Code of Ethics etc)

I also believe that as a professional I have to make the instigator of any reports from myself, aware of the implications of any paperwork generated. I think that this is a key aspect of a 'trusting working relationship'


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#13 Posted : 23 January 2007 12:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian G Hutchings
Hi Shaun

It may also be down to how you word the report/document and show other tangible benefits of the improvement.

In my experience you will just have to stand by your professional decision (make sure it is right and double check with someone else; I am happy to give a view via email).

I've been in similar situations and it does feel very awkward, but you will always look back and be glad you did what you did, even if it means losing this work.

Let us know how you got on.

Good luck

Ian
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#14 Posted : 23 January 2007 14:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason911
I thought that the responsibility for identifying all significant risks remained with the employer and could not be transferred to a third party?

Not that its helps Shaun's thread and I am in no way whatsoever suggesting that he leave it out (before you all start), but just wondered as so many seem to be assuming he would end up in court.
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#15 Posted : 23 January 2007 14:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By JPK
My reason for this is that if the employer ended up in court they would argue that they have had a H&S inpection and report carried out, and these items were not identified!
Then the court would ask the question why???

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#16 Posted : 23 January 2007 14:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim
Jason911,

I and many others use the Court thing to emphasise a point. You are right it is the employer's duty but in this case the employer has employed Shaun for his professional guidance and should expect Shaun to deliver the whole truth. Once Shaun has done that it is then up to the employer to act or not on the advice/guidance received.

Personally I am saddenned by this thread as there are so many members who have had the same or similar experience, it is good, however to see so many replies pointing Shaun toward the correct path.

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#17 Posted : 23 January 2007 17:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor
It sounds like it's not their report but your's, Shaun. To thine own self be true!
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#18 Posted : 24 January 2007 09:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By The toecap
I have a similar problem. I have asked the difficult question and dont seem to be gettiong aywhere. I will record somewhere that i asked just in case.
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#19 Posted : 24 January 2007 09:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By I McDonald
Shaun

I personally would leave it in the report. My stance on the mater is the responsibilities I would have under reg 7 and the competent assistance. There are strong ethical and legal arguments (we have seen this in numerous other threads as well as this one) to leave it in. Main point to you as an individual would be - "Remember Fatty Arbuckles Case".

Ian
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#20 Posted : 24 January 2007 10:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Watto
The real thing you have to consider is when you are on the sippery slope how are you going to get off it. If you do not include your findings ths time what will you do when something more 'trivial' needs to be reported next time.
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#21 Posted : 24 January 2007 10:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Christopher
Hi Shaun

Are you any further forward with your decision about your report. I know that I for one would find it helpful to know what you decided and why.

Would it have been easier to come to a decision if it wasn't such a big client and the contract covered several areas?

You have posted a really interesting thread.
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#22 Posted : 24 January 2007 11:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Thanks for all the replies.

Just to clarify for some of the responses above. I work for an organisation so any contract lost affects several people not just me. I am not a member of IOSH despite my visiting and posting several comments on this site so the rules about membership of IOSH do not apply to me although they are good.

I consider myself to be very professional in what I do and do not like my professionalism to be compromised by 'blackmail'. This does not mean I object to my decisions being challenged, in fact I enjoy that because it always makes me re-evaluate anyhting I may have said or to look at an issue from a different angle, sometimes I do discover that I am wrong (but I never let the wife know that!).

I have decided to include in my report the issue that was asked not to be included. I have attempted to make it more palateable in the way I have worded it and I have discussed the issue with my boss and with the client so that the client does not have any surprises when it does appear.

I have resigned from my company and quit on Friday - not related to this - so I will not be able report on any follow ups although I have made it clear that the client or his superiors can come back to me if they want to discuss the issue further.
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#23 Posted : 24 January 2007 15:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim
Well done Shaun,

I didn't realise you had a "boss" therefore you are right to discuss the issue with him/her as it's their company that would fall.

Good luck with your new career, whatever that is?

keep us posted.

Chris
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#24 Posted : 24 January 2007 17:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Hi Chris

I'm off to a fire engineering consultancy as deputy to director! Nice eh.
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#25 Posted : 24 January 2007 20:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Having read the original posting and some very good advice I have come to the conclusion:

When working as a consultant you should always make it clear that all reports will state the true facts, good, bad or indifferent;

The IOSH Code of Practice will be adhered to whatever or whoever may wish otherwise:

If the above is still a problem for a client or employing manager, then I would provide my original report in Word format and if THEY choose to alter it suit their purpose, so be it. I will still retain the original and on their head be it.

I appreciate my summary may not help Shaun but it may serve others in the future.

Regards

Ray
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#26 Posted : 24 January 2007 20:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim
Hi Shaun,

Nice one - I'm sure you'll keep the Director on his toes.

Good luck.

By the way I may be going in the opposite direction, away from health and safety and into Foster Caring. Getting a bit old now to keep up with all these changes and think I need a break away from all the legislation.

Hows about that then?

Chris
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