Posted By J.D.F
yesterday on night shift a forklift overturned due to the rear drive shaft snapping.All windows were smashed and the driver recieved a few stitches.Today it has came to light that the driver had no ticket for the forklift.There were only seven people working that night with one supervisor.Who's going to carry the can???

Posted By J.D.F
Sorry ITK, Im new to H&S and im beginning my Nebosh Construction Cert on Monday. S2 & S7 ?

Posted By andrew morris
Section 2 of the Health and safety at Work etc. Act 1974 imposes a general duty on employers to protect employees so far as is reasonably practicable. S7 says employees should have due care for others.

Other potential offences include various sets of regulations but there is no point going into these as you will probably find out quite soon...

Decide if its a reportable accident and report it...

Posted By Homer
I explored the no ticket problem some time ago, fortunately not based on an accident.

You can throw the competency ticket on the table, as an employer he was deemed competent to drive the FLT through knowledge and experience, unfortunately if someone says prove it, you'll have a hard job without a piece of paper to wave at them saying the driver was trained.

Looks like driver is in the hot seat and employer for not checking and allowing him to drive it.

Posted By Jason911
If the employee knew he should not, but took it upon himself to operate the truck without his supervisors knowledge, then he is 100% responsible in my book, although some would probably argue that he was inadequately supervised.

However if this was a regular occurrence and allowed to become accepted practice within the firm, then the employer will carry most of the blame.

Jay

Posted By Jason911
Don't think the HSE will see it that way and overlook the fact that the driver was not qualified. No Sireeeeeee.

Posted By karina brady1


Did the employee operating the forklift get an induction upon commencing employment stating the gereral rules ie do not operate plant and equipment unless trained to do so. If he did then you can argue that he knew he wasnt supposed to drive the forklift. If not, then the resposibilty lies with the supervisor and the company. Was there a weekly safety checklist sheet being filled out for the forklift?

Posted By GSP
Whether the employee was partly to blame or not is irrelevant.

The fork lift should have been maintained, inspected regularly, parts replaced and shouldn't have broke in such a manner...that's where the prosecution would be if one ever reared its head.

Posted By Angela Hayden
Also, surely there should be some control over keys to the forklift and only authorised persons holding and securing them to prevent unauthorised use?

Ang.

Posted By CRT
In my humble opinion; need to establish the cause of the failure to identify if the failure was caused through mechanical fault and/or manner in which the vehicle was being operated. Then can look at possible offences
Its worth noting that LA`s and HSE will only pursue a prosecution against an employee if the employer is 100% blameless - in my experience that is very rare.

Colin

Posted By ITK
Slight bug bear of mine but HSE are not the only Enforcing Authority in the UK.

Posted By Alexander Falconer
It is all fine and well in making the assumptions here and there as to who is to blame.

One point we all need to consider, are we in posession of all the facts? Probably not!

Firstly, under RIDDOR Reg 2(1)the incident is required to be reported as a dangerous occurrence "the collapse of, the overturning of, or the failure of any load-bearing part of any ............ (g) fork lift truck.

This will in turn prompt a potential investigation by the enforcing agency (most likely to be the HSE)

JDF, to stand yourself in good stead, my suggestion would be to commence the investigation process, and leave no stone unturned, whilst you are fairly new in the H&S game, the suggestions and points raised by our fellow peers in this thread will guide you and assist you in your investigation.

The investigation process will probably be indepth, and look into many areas for the company strengths & weaknesses within the H&S management system.

I am happy to provide a checklist which will help you with your investigation, whilst it will not help you write your report, it will at least give you some pointers into what you are looking for.

Whilst it is not easy to predict the outcome of any subsequent HSE/Local authority investigation, being proactive in your own investigation, does go a long way to redressing some of the balance and also develop your own H&S investigation skills.

Regards

Alex

Posted By Pete48
JDF, many thanks for posting this incident. A timely reminder to us all that best practice is there for a very good reason. I visit many businesses and if I had a penny for every time I come across FLT with no driver within a 100 feet and the keys in the ignition; then I would be writing this from a Caribbean beach!!
I agree with Alex that although this incident appears to suggest some pretty clear and significant failures in safe systems, it may not be as we perceive it.

I have one point to add to those already offered. The reported failure to follow safe practice with regard to FLT would need sorting irrespective of how, why, what or who caused the accident. One does not need to wait for any RIDDOR report or HSE/LA follow up to know that and I would advise that you get a plan together to sort that out PDQ. (check the HSE website for info if you are not sure what is required)

As to can carrying, the investigating officer which may be you for the company and later on the enforcing authority if they decide to investigate, will determine specific failures and responsibilities. The company is holding the can right now because the incident has happened but the Supervisor and the employee may ALSO have a can to carry later. That would depend on the findings of the investigation. For example, how could you place any responsibility on an employee who had been given no training, information or instruction on the safe operation of FLT? or perhaps even worse been told lots of incorrect and unsafe stuff by an equally untrained Supervisor?
Wouldn't happen?? Oh yes it does.

Posted By RP
The operator need not have a 'ticket' but must be deemed competent to operate the FLT by the employer.

But, are we missing the point, the rear drive shaft broke.

1. Was this reasonable foreseeable
2. Was it due to poor maintenance

This is not something that the operator would have noticed, even if carrying out standard checks in accordance with any Training, Information, etc.

An investigation by a competent person that would involve the manufacturer would assist in apportioning blame. All too often we only look at direct causes and its easy to blame the operator and try and avoid any compensation due to other factors.

Posted By Alexander Falconer
Got to disagree with the comments by RP & Andrew.

There is no requirement to check the driveshaft in the first instance.

After all, when you put your own car in for a service, is the driveshaft checked? No!

JDF, it may also be worthwhile contacting the manufacturer/suppliers of your Forklift Trucks!

Even if there were illegal practices going on during breaks, cctv would be a good source of evidence, witness statements from other drivers, etc.

It is amazing some of the illegal practrices you do discover during such investigations. I have had speed restrictor tampering, forks carrying 4 boxes high (when 3 was the maximum), and even a case where a driver carrying 4 boxes high was also pushing another 4 in front (8 in total) - it beggars belief (the individual was subjected to disciplinary procedure, and resigned before they were effected).

Posted By Keith Ralph
Forgetting if the driver is qualified or not, was he an experienced driver and can JDF explain why the truck overturned when the driveshaft broke?
What the driver was doing ie goint to fast, unstable high load?
I would have thought that if the driveshaft broke, unless it dug into the ground, the truck would have come to a stop.

Posted By J.D.F
The reason the FLT overturned was due to the forks being fully extended whilst carrying a heavy load.Common sense would tell you that the further the projection then the less weight it can carry.As more is revealed ,i'll keep you all posted .Thank you all JDF