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#1 Posted : 02 February 2007 16:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Karel Simpson
Hi all,

Not really heard of this myself but one of our clients has stopped one of our workers who is spreading weedkiller on a site, all safety datat sheets, ms, ra's are in place etc and this is into guttering etc preventing any run off to normal sewerage etc.

However the security guard has stopped the lad and asked for his certificate? According to the site he needs to be certified to use this, can anyone help I have never heard of this before.

Regards

Karel
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#2 Posted : 02 February 2007 18:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By George Wedgwood
Karel, I am sure your employee is good at what he is doing or you would not have given him that job - if you are not sure maybe you could watch him at work for a short while a few times to make sure. Let's not go overboard on this but perhaps he needs to understand a few things about using such chemicals as well as the possible effects about skin contamination aerosol effects and what may result from it getting into the storm drains eventually. As employer, you can then give him a 'certificate' which will demonstrate that you have taken some interest in his work, ensured that he can do it diligently and is working to the datasheet controls recommended. It's really that easy and if I asked a contractor I would expect this type of 'self certification' for such a task. For a more difficult or risks task, I might also expect some evidence of external validation that a competence level had been demonstrated.

Remember that if you assure a client that your worker is 'competent' then you will be assuming some degree of liability or at least be responsible for justifying the certificate and the method of accreditation.

Hope this helps, George
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#3 Posted : 02 February 2007 18:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sovay Shaw
Karel
Can't directly answer your query, but if you look on the following website, it may help you find the answer. http://www.pesticides.gov.uk
It will point you to the relevant legislation, The Control of Pesticides Regulations 1986, (as amended) (COPR), and hopefully you will have time to trawl through, to discover if your chap needs to attend a short course to obtain the certificate of competence, (run by horticultural colleges and the like). Probably the 'certificate' referred to.

Good hunting (and a nice weekend too!)
Sovay



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#4 Posted : 02 February 2007 19:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Karel

If you are in the UK please ignore George's advice altogether. Sovay has pointed you to the correct place. Pesticides include weedkillers and insecticides and any commercial application is covered by the regulations, as is domestic use to an extent.

One would hope that technical advice would have been more accurate in such an important area.

Bob
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#5 Posted : 02 February 2007 22:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By George Wedgwood
Karel, have a look at http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg257.pdf
for some good practice and don't worry about some of the 'pedantic' responses. What matters is that you are trying to improve standards in what your organisation carries out for clients. Simply look for the risks and try to analyse them so that the client is happy with the safe result and is happy with the price! Remember that we are in business and sometimes we need to be clever in our approach to make a profit!

Feel free to discuss further if you still have a problem.
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#6 Posted : 05 February 2007 09:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Karel

The laisez faire approach is not actually advised in INDG 257. Note the para on Professional Users:

a professional user - the pesticide can only
be applied by people who have to use
pesticides as part of their work and who have
received appropriate training to enable them to
do this safely;

The term covers all persons at work and the term appropriate training does not, as I understand the regulations and its associated code, refer to an internal training course. It refers to a specific competency training under the auspices of the ministry of agriculture.

These regulations are not solely HSE enforced and the leaflet correctly refers to "appropriate training" as there are a number of different certificate courses available and the most appropriate syllabus is required.

Bob
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#7 Posted : 05 February 2007 10:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Clare Gabriel
Control of Pesticides Regulations do apply - am appalled by the response calling it pedantic - probably need the certificate of competene in the use of a back pack sprayer - not tractor mounted. Also need to consider Environmental Regualtions.
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#8 Posted : 05 February 2007 10:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Karel,

Please follow Bob Lewis on this one. Training to a recognised standard really is required, and the security guard was right,

John
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#9 Posted : 05 February 2007 11:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Karel Simpson
Thanks all for your help in this matter, really appreciated.

In the process of looking at training now for our employees involved and also writing a letter to the security guards employees to praise him for standing up for what he believes was right and having safety in mind as I think it is something that is never really praised enough.

Best wishes to all

Regards
Karel
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#10 Posted : 05 February 2007 11:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Glyn Atkinson
My wife lectures in a higher education horticulture facility, and all of their working staff have to have attended and successfully completed an NVQ Training Unit on wearing of suitable PPE and the Control of Pesticides within the workplace, including all relevant risk assessments and method statements by individual area for use, storage, safety for students on site, cleaning and safe storage of worn PPE for this task, safe disposal methods for empty containers or packaging etc.

You must prove competence of the user of the pesticide product and also prevent any contamination of water courses or drains with use of the materials.

Robert Lewis is giving excellent info on the thread here.
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#11 Posted : 05 February 2007 12:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Karel Simpson
Hi again everyone,

Found the NPTC information and looked at the codes of practise which covers training.

According to this it quotes:

'By law, everyone who uses pesticides professionally must have recieved adequate training in using pesticides...............'

Further on it goes on to explain who needs a certificate of competence (basically everyone nearly) and what information the training should be covering and links to training providers.

It does comment on if your employer provides training then it needs to be equivalent to the standards it describes which could provide a loophole.

Again though you would be left having to prove the competence of the person who written the training and who carried it out, all in all probably just easy going to a local training provider which I have spoken to and awaiting the course information etc.

Once again thanks to evrybody who contributed or even took the time in reading this.

Regards

Karel
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#12 Posted : 05 February 2007 12:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Karel

You are spot on - if you do try to match the standard yourself then competent trainer provision. Unless you are heavily active in this area, such as a Local Authority Parks or Highways dept then competent assistance will be hard to find.

Bob
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#13 Posted : 05 February 2007 13:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt
I believe the usual course is referred to as PA1 foundation and PA6 Backpack sprayer.


Jeff
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#14 Posted : 05 February 2007 13:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
I think I was having a senior moment in my last posting - Finding a competent trainer is difficult unless you are such as a LA or specialist contractor undertaking a lot of this work:-)

Bob
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