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Posted By Karen
Hi
Other than using a ladder/roof ladder with stabilisers and a harness/lanyard attached to the ladder or chimney, does anyone else have any sensible suggestions as to how the installation of a Satellite Dish can be carried out safely. Please bear in mind that this is short duration work 20-30 minutes only.
Thanks in anticipation
Karen
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Posted By MT
Do you think the fact that as I write there had been 101 views of this message and not a single response reinforces the fact that confusion reigns when it comes to the WAH Regs?
Just an observation.........
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Posted By Roy McGraa
A lot might depend on the size of the dish. Is it for watching SKY TV or is it the type used by NASA to receive signals from Mars?
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Posted By Jon Vitta
Hi Karen
I am with MT on this, have a look for a past thread|(3 weeks back)on use of stepladders by the Humberside fire brigade to fit smoke alarms. The views and interpretation of the WAH regs in on that issue by us safety professionals were varied to say the least.
Confusion reigns!
Regards
Jon
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Posted By Emyr Evans
Two comments:
1st to Karen: Can you not enquire (from the HSE elsewhere) how many accidents / falls have been reported for persons installing a satellite dish. There must be millions of these erected up and down the country - and since most would have been erected in the traditional way (ladders) - before the introduction of the recent WAH regulations. You could well argue that the traditional system is safe and by custom-and-practice within the industry a best practice. SO why change???
2nd to Roy: Could you not have asked a more stupid question? - even if you try... Karen said that this was a 20-30 minute task in her original question - how likely is it that the subject matter related to NASA satellite dishes? and do you think that these NASA satellite dishes can be erected in 30 minutes???? As my daughter would say - get a life......
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Posted By Roy McGraa The Confederation of Aerial Industries Ltd produce a useful document called "Health & Safety in the Aerial & Satellite Industries" which should answer all of your health and safety concerns. You can order it on their website: http://www.cai.org.uk/asp/publications.asp
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Posted By Robert.
Who says that all satelite dishes are mounted high up?
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Posted By Frank Newman
OK, think about the job. Small satellite dishes are usually installed at the height of a second storey house. Maybe about 5 meters high. OK, some may be higher but statistically that is about it.
The job lasts maybe 30 minutes. Carting around and erecting scaffolding would double or treble the job time and cost. Ladders are the only option I can see.
However. If it can be made a two-man job so much the better. Or, and this is only a top-of-the-head example, the first time up the installer could drill one hole to which could be anchored a fixing point for the ladder, attachment point for a fall arrester and a safe means of hoisting and stabilising the dish.
Risk Assessments will only assess the risk. The second step must be analysing the job so as to find ways of reducing the risk. While still getting the job done economically.
I may well be severely castigated for not taking the WAH regulations seriously. But seriously, do you have any better suggestions ?
Merv
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Posted By Robert.
Window cleaners cope
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
My sat dishes are both mounted at chest height.
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Posted By safety medic
WaH - confusion reigns - i think not!
This is quite straight forward when you sit back and think about it. If someone could fall and injure themselves then you must assess the risk and do something about it. Its no different to any other piece of legislation we deal with day in day out.
There is nothing wrong with using ladders so long as you have and can prove you have, considered and eliminated other options as not practicable.
1. You dont state what your position is but where possible the dish should be mounted as low as is possible and avoid the need to work at height in the first place. (avoid the risk)
2. If work is of a long duration or difficult to fix and hold a dish at the same time then is there a possibility of using mobile tower scaffold, they are quick and easy to erect (once trained) and can have a small 'footprint' whilst reaching quite high. They provide complete protection without the need for PPE measures. (engineering control)
3. If ladders must be used you must assess the risk of using these separately and effectively justify the use of them above all other means. Dont forget your heirarchy of control. If a ladder is the only remining option, can it be footed by another person? If not use a foot plate which provides extra grip and spreads the load, can the ladder be tied in at the top, can anchors be used at the base.
4. Lets not be scared into not using ladders through misreading of the regulation. The HSE recognises the need to use ladders but you must work through the hierarcy of control and assess each step of the work on its own merits, not getting pulled into the use of a ladder just because its quicker.
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Posted By ddraigice
Good points.
Maybe the apparent confusion in the wah regs is down to incompetence? Or maybe an inability to see through the recent newspaper articles about whether we can or cant use ladders. The wah regs are not great but they are a whole lot less confusing than the preceeding regs which had exactly the same message - nothing has changed wrt ladders.
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Posted By garyh
The HSE guidance on using ladders (having arrived at the decision that ladders are the most practicable solution, of course) is that 3 points of contact must be maintained. This, combined with a stable ladder, is surely the essence of how to work safely from a ladder.
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Posted By Catman
Hi All
We installed satellite dishes on both newbuild and existing properties. I risk assessed the newbuild job and with the weight of the dish and the procedure involved in fixing it to the wall we always put the satellite dish up from the principal contractors scaffold. If this was not available it was a mewp or alloy tower.
With existing properties it then became simple, the ground is just as hard on old buildings as it is on new, so just because it takes longer we could not justify fitting from a ladder.
The team have tho options of a niftylift mewp platform (towed), an alloy tower, an easidec or a minimax platform. Ladders are used for final adjustment and simple short tasks requiring only one hand. The team are trained in selection and use of the equipment. The most important bit of training they had was (signal permitting) fitting the dish in the safest loaction possible.
It was a painful change but it works.
cheers
TW
P.S. It is worth noting that the hse when updating thier guidance on three points of contact, view extension ladders differently from stepladders, i.e. the hips/body are not shown as an option for the third point of contact.
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Posted By Catman
Additionally...
have a google for ladder mate.
I dont work for them and have no connection whatsoever with them, I just think if you are going to use ladders, this is a good option.
We made it mandatory on ladder work.
Cheers
TW
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Posted By Karen
Thanks to everyone who has replied, I have taken on of the comments on board and am glad to see that despite the confusion, most people tend to agree, that subject to suitable precautions and assessments etc, that Ladders are acceptable for this type of work.
Thanks
Karen
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
I put my own up.
Didn't lift the dish, lifted the bracket without the dish. Marked the wall...drilled the holes...inserted the plugs...screwed the bracket on.
Put the 2 U clamps in, inserted the mounting pole...clamped it finger tight...put the dish on.....
Simple.
10 minutes.
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Posted By Frank Newman
John,
10 minutes ? I've never known a simple 10 minute DIY job that didn't take at least two hours.
Counting from the coffee before while contemplating the wall to the one after while wife is applying plasters. That includes collecting various widely distributed tools and picking the ladder out of the flower bed.
Never found the 18mm spanner.
Merv
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Posted By Kenneth Patrick
John & Frank,
Would you know if there are more injuries from DIY work on roofs than among those who do it for a living?
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Posted By Tony Brunskill
Karen,
Please contact me and I will outline the current practices agreed with the HSE by all of the main players in the satellite installation game. We are a consultancy appointed by the biggest player in this arena to audit and ensure compliance of their sub contractors.
tbrunskill@(do not type this bit)corporatesafetysolutions.co.uk
Regards
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