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Posted By Tim Fry Dear forum, I am an experienced System Safety consultant in defence, nuclear and railway sectors but I have had only limited exposure to the specifics of OSH. I am currently studying for a Masters in Human Factors and Safety Management at the University of South Australia. As part of my studies I need to learn more about the development of Safety Management Systems, including the history and perhaps how SMS development relates to other movements such as Quality and Environmental management. Can anyone in this forum point me in the direction of some useful references or net resources in this area? Many thanks Tim Tim Fry timothy.fry@asc.com.au
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Posted By Delwynne Hi Tim There are some very useful documents relating to your questions in the technical information section of this website http://www.iosh.co.uk/index.cfm?go=technical.mainIf you look under IOSH guidance there are a couple of documents relating to the individual management systems. I found 'Systems in focus' (which I think is second to last on the guidance page) really useful when I was writing one of my assignments.
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Posted By steven bentham
Tim
You may find these interesting:
James Reason, Managing the Risks of Organizational Accidents, ISBN 1 84014 105 0;
B Toft & S Reynolds, Learning from Disasters A Management Approach, ISBN 0 7596 0692 4; Alan Waring, Safety Management Systems, ISBN 0 412 71910 X;
Regardss
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Posted By jom
Tim,
You can't ignore the recent history in Victoria, where the Safety Case has been brought to bear in the Major Hazard Facilities.
The SMS is central to this self-regulatory regime.
John.
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Posted By Merv Newman
Flogging a very old horse, but here we go.
Du Pont started in 1802 in Delaware as a manufacturer of gunpowder. After a particularly nasty explosion in 1812 which killed a dozen people including one of the sons of E.I. Du Pont the company introduced some elements of safety management. Including a requirement that, after any shut down or maintenance the restart was done by management.
Somewhere around 1900 they instituted a central Fire prevention service.
After the first world war this became Fire and Safety Protection. FSP. (this is where I came in)(but not directly after the first world war, please)
Around 1980 this turned into Safety and Health protection SHP.
In the 1990's this came to include Environment ; Health, Safety and Environment : HSE.
Again, in the early '90s the HSE consulted with Du Pont amongst others, and came up with BSI 8800.
This was later turned into a candidate as a European standard as OHSAS 18001/2 (OHSAS = occupational Health and Safety Advisory Standard) on the same lines as SI 14000.
At the time BSI and the HSE said that should a European Safety Management System be adopted then OHSAS 18000 would be withdrawn. It never was. Particularly because the French Ministry of Labour took the position that "All an employer has to do is obey the law, and, anyway, safety is the Union's job"
Yeah, well.
So the position we have today is an unofficial standard based largely on the DuPont SMS. But many companies have requested BSI and/or Veritas or others to audit them to the actual or a modified version of OHSAS 18000
Nowadays, when we audit a company's safety management system, our recommendations are always designed to lead them into eventual compliance with 18000. Whether they want to or not.
Merv
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Posted By Holly McDermott
Hi Tim,
Your thoughts about quality management systems are right, these were the template for the BS8800 & ISO 14000 series and then OHSAS 18001(occupational health and safety assessment series)
Undoubtedly there is some of what Merv said in there. However, management systems as we know of today come from the USA military after WW2
I suggest researching that route
Hope this has helped
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Posted By Merv Newman
Holly,
you are quite correct in referring to the US military link. But it still goes back to DuPont.
Their original production was explosives, which of course led them into arms manufacture, supplying the military. They expanded greatly during WW1 and after the war diversified from nitrocellulose (gun cotton) production into fertilisers (from the nitrates) and paints and plastics (from the cotton) which developed into the current Agrochemicals and Polymers divisions.
With that diversification came an increase in accident rates which is partly why the safety group evolved from "Fire Protection" into "Safety and Fire Protection" S&FP. (I got it a bit wrong in my first posting)
DuPont safety management methods for manufacturing and handling explosives and munitions were adopted and copied by the US military.
Until about 15-20 years ago the US atomic bombs were built in DP's Savannah River plant. Do not ask about radiation exposures of employees.
Merv
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Tim,
As one of the co-authors of ‘Systems in Focus’ and a key witness to the development of OHSAS 18001 & 18002, I am constantly amazed by the variation in historic accounts, which I presently hear and that of my own experience.
As I understand the origins of OHSAS 18001, this was originally developed in an informal manor through a lunchtime club, at BSI and this was simple an exercise to see if the ISO 14001 model could also work with Occupational Safety.
Ironically we only have OHSAS 18001 because of the political resistance to a Certifiable Standard in Occupational Safety and Health at that time and this is the reason why it is so simple.
My experience is that process of designing management systems goes back much further than the Second World War to that of the "The Father of Scientific Management." Frederick Winslow Taylor, (1856 – 1915) and Walter A. Shewhart (1891-1967) who developed the ‘Shewhat wheel’ which we commonly know as the principle of ‘Plan, Do, Check, Act’.
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Posted By jom
Why should we give a monkey's about history?
How do we make industry safer for those who work amongst its hazards?
How do we do this now? Today.
Perhaps the story-telling of history that we so like is a distraction from the main job.
Does it really matter what Du Pont did in the 12th century?
John.
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze
Er jom, how do you think business continually improves, if it doesn't learn from past mistakes?
As such, learning from history is probably one of the best management tools on the block and at the hub of most management systems, not just the health & safety ones.
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Posted By Holly McDermott
John,
Sounds like someone is having a bad day.
We are only answering a request for information. If we do not reflect on history how are we supposed to improve.
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Posted By jom
Jon and Holly,
Wow, that was a rapid response. Must be sunrise in the UK.
Of course we learn from history. I agree - that is of great importance.
But I think we lose the plot when we hark back to things of ancient times. In today's world, that means more than 10 years ago IMHO>.
What I'm saying is that past generations should have analysed their accidents and passed on the learnings. We need to analyse the accidents of today and generate new learnings for the future. This is our responsibility.
For some reason, we are charmed by the story-telling of old accidents.
All I'm saying is we've got major accidents happenning in our time that need our attention. That's hard work. I really mean that - it is hard work. Talking about something that happenned twenty years ago is easy.
What's going to generate useful outcomes? It's as simple as that.
John.
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Posted By Merv Newman
The specific question asked was on the history of safety management systems. Maybe not of interest to everyone but it is useful for Tim's studies.
I remember doing the History of Science as part of my studies. All the way back to Esculapius and that bloke in the bath. Fascinating
Merv
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Posted By Tim Fry
All,
Thanks for all the information, I've ordered a copy or Reason's book and will be off to the library at the weekend to search for some of the other references quoted.
We can't discount history in our quest for moving forward, otherwise we'd never learn from anything and we wouldn't be able to understand how we got where we are today, which is important (not exclusively) if we are to develop further.
I'll let you all know how I got on with the research.
Cheers
Tim
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Posted By jom
Tim said:
"We can't discount history in our quest for moving forward, otherwise we'd never learn from anything"
I agree. We should study what has occurred and learn so as to prevent future harm from industrial accidents.
Buncefield happened 12 months ago and Texas City 24 months ago. These constitute the ingredients of our generation's history. There should be raging discussions on these two accidents, but that isn't happenning. It's our job to write the history and ensure it is accurate.
Incidentally, both those sites empployed SMS, so what are we to make of that?
Cheers,
Grumpy John.
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Posted By peter gotch
Hi Grumpy John!
Texas City SMS led to excellent standards of personal safety but unfortunately did not properly address process safety.
Exactly the same problem as that which led to 3 [non fatal] incidents at BP Grangemouth in 2000 which led to £1m fine and a report from HSE which was implemented at Grangemouth but not on the other side of the Pond.
In terms of the costs of accidents at work, Texas City costing BP something like $1bn.
Regards, Peter
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Posted By peter gotch
and the history of safety goes back a very long way!
When you build a new house, make a parapet around your roof so that you may not bring the guilt of bloodshed on your house if someone falls from the roof
Deuteronomy 22:8
Regards, Peter
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Posted By Merv Newman
Learning from past mistakes :
The 1812 explosion at DuPont was traced back to the baker's horse striking sparks on the cobbles and igniting loose grains of gunpowder.
Which is why, to this very day, you will never see a horse on a DuPont site.
Merv
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Posted By John Lewis
I saw the thread this morning and thought "hey there's something I can add to this, I've just read a book about Du Pont" Then I saw Mervs' response ........
Still, Du Pont is one of the most succesful companies in the world and it is safe so they must be doing something right and I'm sure a good SMS counts for a lot in that success.
John
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