Posted By J Knight Hi Kevin, I haven't read the guidance on FRA for office and commercial premises, but the guides for care and healthcare state quite clearly that evacuation plans must be based on no assistance from the fire service; in other words, fire-fighters will rescue but not assist in evacuation. If this is generally the case the use of refuges as you describe would be unacceptable. We have just bought a number of evac chairs for one of our care centres; a service for people with complex neurological disability. Staff will use them whether service users like it or not; we do believe in choice and consent but happen to think we have no choice ourselves as far as the new RR(FS)O is concerned, John

Posted By FJ We do provide them as, under our fire risk assessment, we identified that there may be need of them for people using our training rooms. How else will you ensure that everyone gets out? The previous respondant is quite correct in saying that you have to plan for getting everyone out of the building without assuming that the fire/rescue authority will do it for you.

Posted By J Knight Bob, Is that a current view? I ask because every fire service I've spoken to recently has been of the opinion that evacuation is the responsibility of the controller of the premises, and not the fire service; which is also the view of the government guidance. Admittedly I haven't spoken to the LFB, John

Posted By Phillip Fire reform order guidance is quite clear – disabled people should be able to evacuate a building without having to wait for the fire service. Remember also the Disability discrimination act has an anticipatory clause. So you need to make reasonable allowance for any credible foreseeable occupants. Why not give the disability commission a ring? You can easily google their help line. Don’t forget the blind & deaf.

Posted By J Knight Shaun, thanks for the response; sometimes I think 'is it just me?', John

Posted By Phillipe Bob I disagree, I have dealt with LFB Enforcement Officers and their veiw is contrary to the one you have offered. Perhaps you have an isolated case. As for the rest of the country, it is increasingly the same answer from all Fire Authorities, why do you think major retailers and other companies and shelling out thousands of pounds on evac chairs? We are being left with no option on the subject.

Posted By James Lawrence I have already experience this and on our premises for emergency fire evacuations. As JK correctly pointed out it is the responsibility of the controller of the premises to ensure safe evacuation of all staff and visitors. The DDA is also a primary obligation for ensure reasonableness to those who are unable to evcuate under normal circumstances. Interestingly we manage to ensure persons can enter the premises, so it bear true that we should enable effective egress and evacuation too. I see a strong moral side that come into this and the risks should be realised for all staff and those with different types of disabilities. You should not rely on the fire brigade to assertian the quantum of risks to evacuate your staff, these should be foreseeable and every reasonable effort should be countered for this. I've provided strategic refuge points for safe protection and this is structured around evacuation chairs and trained operators to take anyone down after the steward has given the all clear of a respective floor. This way everyone has safely evacuated and no one should be in the building. Communication and cooperation is the key here. Yes admitedly, training can be problematic along with holidays and sickness, but ensure effeective cover of more trained staff to enable this. The moral and integrity of staffs overide every issue along with our duties under the FSO. We should be able to quantify the risks against costs and the DDA try to give that balance too. Sorry if this seem a rant, but not my intention as I'm proud to promote sensible and pragmatic H&S into our culture and its everyone responsiblity to look after ourselves and each other. It showed the company cares and makes an effort and this is improved by staff attitudes, makes H&S approchable if they ever require my advice anytime. Thanks James

Posted By Michael McBride In my previous job we had a few evac chairs. it was the training of operatives that was the main problem. We also asked the disabled staff if they would like to use them when we practised, some did, some didn't. We had a refuge for the disabled staff and the evacuated after the other 1400 staff had gone.

Posted By Alan Hewett Kevin, This may be of some use although it is primarily aimed at alterations during construction or refurbishment it does contain some use info in the guidance. BS 5588 Fire Precautions in the design and construction of buildings – Part 8: Code of practice for means of escape for disabled people. Regards, Alan