Posted By Tomek Sladden
Could anyone give some advice on whether the provision of fire extinguishers in a small holiday let with smoke and heat detection would be advisable or not. I have browsed RRFSO and Building Regs DOC B and the RRFSO guidance from the DCLG website refering to sleeping accommodation but as usual no specifics. I have carried out a Fire risk assessment and the risk rating is medium purely due to the fact that it is still sleeping accommodation even with detection. I know that the main priority is for occupants to escape but should consideration be given to workers and extinguisher use or possibly the people hiring aswell, although I understand this brings about other considerations.

Would love some advice or similar experiences.

Thanks, TOM.

Posted By Tomek Sladden
Thanks Phillip, sound like good advice.

Posted By Ashley Wood
I think this is an example of where life safety and property protection cross over. Firstly, a smoke detector is installed to save lives so that would be a good thing to see in a holiday let. No difference here to your own home. A fire extinguisher in this scenario is not necessary as a life safety item but certainly from a property protection perspective makes sense. Take the scenario of a BBQ that gets out of hand, most people would use an extinguisher to deal with the fire whether trained or not. By doing so they could save the property from a damaging incident.

if i was assessing the risk from the life safety perspective only I would expect to see smoke detectors installed and a fire action notice put up advising the occupants of what to do to prevent a fire and should fire occur.

This is for the H&S specialists. What about carbon monoxide detectors? After tragic events last year, would you expect to see these installed by the landlords?

Posted By Jon Robinson
Hi

We had a recent inspection from the fire service at one of our hostels. The Hostel Manager had put portable extinguishers in each bedroom for use by the residents.

The fire officer questioned this, and went on to ask what training the residents would have had in using the extinguishers. His point was around liability if they injured themselves using the extinguishers or were injured trying to fight a fire.

Initially I thought that the provision of extinguishers in the bedrooms was a positive thing, but I have since changed my mind. The hostel has a full detection and early warning system in place, good compartmentation, fire extinguishers are placed along exit routes and staff are trained to use them. So really the extinguishers are not needed. Given there around 40 bedrooms, also quite expensive to purchase and maintain.

Posted By Amanda
I agree with my colleague Steve. My understanding of providing fire fighting equipment is for first aid, either to put out a small fire, or to assist in evacuating the building where your exit is on fire.
Your risk assessment needs to reflect the type of instances which could occur and as this is letting you do not know the level of the persons who will be staying. Should a fire occur and persons are injured or there is a fatality an inquest/investigation would ensue and the provision of such equipment would be balanced against the risk.

Posted By Hugo
It is comforting, that we in the UK have Acts of parliment, and Regulations in place so as to protect the worker and the public

Sometimes however they do not touch all bases.

I was disappointed when the Reviewed and weakened fire regs were set in place in my view to (lower us to european standards).

Sometimes we must take responibiblty and use our grey matter as well as refer and obey law and regulation.

The fire extinguishers is a first aid firefighting tool - however it is there as a means of (protecting the means of escape).

When the old fire certificates were drawn up - the building company sat down with the architect and drew in the necessary fire protection according to law and pocket.

They arrived on the desk of the fire safety officer and he covered the drawings in red ink, (recommedations for fire protection).

Back on the desk of the architect - he reduced the protection to minimun legal requirement.

So to say someone has followed the regs or guidance is to say they are applying the minimum standard required - which will only be raised after death or destruction (re-active protection).

I am shocked the fire officer questioned training in the use of extinguishers and there presence. I have attended fires when the pump failed or I was re-routed from another call with inadequate supplies of water or it simply ran out or the hydrant was damaged.

So to willingly question additional reserves of water is madness. My level of judgement is based on what I would do if my family and friends were sleeping upstairs in the accomodation, after a bbq and after a few glasses of wine.

The person responding to the fire may well be as on many occasions, a passing police patrol, milkman or taxi-driver.

If they can easliy awake and or carry all the occupants safely and in good time (how long can you hold your breath for in a poisonous atmosphere), to a safe place outside the building then you can sleep well.

A fire blanket in a kitchen is a minimum - and I have only ever used them on chip pans and pots of burning food - never on the television in the corner which overheated in the standby mode filling the room with black acrid smoke and toxic unburt products of combustion, or the sofa slowly smoldering under the heat of a cigarette.

May I also add - never asume - the smoke / heat detectors are working or that people sleeping will here them.

Regs are great but if you want to protect life then I will give you a little saying from my old mentor.. (in relation to your fire extinguisher dilema)

"you'r better looking at them, than looking for them"

Posted By GT
Shaun,
I agree with your final comments and I have "diplomatically" tried to state this on the forum.

Mind you there are many on the forum who will not agree and they are obviously pending SFPO's or is it group Director / Manager now?

Regards


GT