Posted By Philby'
Some background info, sorry its a tome....

We have a team of 'out of hours workers' contracted at various times between 16:30pm and 8:30am Monday to Sunday.

Very limited parking, city centre location, and a nightclub over the road. Evidence of broken glass, (bottles, windows, beer receptacles), broken walls with bricks strewn around, vomit and blood, with accompanying blood stained shirts, jumpers, coats etc. all in the vicinity and, the incumbent aroma of urine! So evidence of violence/abuse/vandalisation etc.

The staff are understandably concerned, however, the HR team here is of the opinion that we do not have a duty to:
allow more parking, it is secure; or provide taxis for those that live outside bus routes; or work when buses are unavailable, and, to be honest the night rider is not nicknamed 'fight rider' through cockney rhyming slang!

The HR reasoning behind this is:
'we' cannot help where people live, (despite the social context that often the worst paid and rubbish jobs sometimes result in access to only the worst housing/districts); the public transport system is a joke and based on profitability not service; and....

my personal favourite....'we' are offering them work they wouldn't ordinarily have access to, ie were doing them a favour! Despite the fact that 'we' wouldn't be employing them if there wasn't a demand/need for an out of hours team, so who's doing who a favour?

Having had little input to this process (the relocation, the negotiation, the HR and management stance etc)until the 'them and us' arguments erupted, I have advised that, whilst there is no direct duty, we have a moral one to at least offer some support and, through (unofficial) risk assessment, I have identified all those issues above...and am now in a position to make management aware.

eventually, my questions are:
Has anyone else had this issue and what did they do about it, and, have I missed anything?

thanks

Philby'

Posted By Allan St.John Holt
There's such a threat of violence here that I think you ought to have a discussion with the police. As you may know, there is a growing threat to postpeople and I have found the police to be very helpful.

Allan

Posted By Gilly Margrave
Hi Philby,
You could always suggest they contact their union.
Gilly ;)

Posted By Paul Oliver
Why not also ask a member of the HR team to accompany an employee during one of the weekend callouts. See if they are wiling to see for themselves the main issues.

Posted By Darren J Fraser
Hi

I may have missed the point, in which case I apologise, but surely the 'duty of care' and Sec 2 of HASWA - safe access and egress would apply, along with various other snippets of law and regulations.

I agree with a previous post, of getting a member of the HR and Management team to work during the timeline when all the dodgy stuff is going on and see how 'safe' they feel, or is it an ivory tower mentality in the organisation, 'we are alright jack, let someone else deal with it'.

May be worth pointing out, that their attitude could result in serious consequences both for the organisation and senior individuals, if anything was to happen to an employee.

Posted By Darren J Fraser
Hi Andrew

I agree with you about the interpretation of Sec 2, however with a nightclub over the road as stated in the original post, I could foresee an issue with all the hazards identified, being immediately outside of the entrance to the premises. Obviously this would then mean that someone has to clear all this away which may not have been considered, or it may be transported into the premises, thereby causing additional issues.
Some may argue that outside the premises is an environmental issue not H&S, and I suppose they could be correct, but personally I would not separate the two, just treat as one.

Some unions have in the past argued that the moment you leave home in the morning until the moment you arrive back at night, even if not being paid the company owes you a duty of care, whether this is correct I do not know, but it is something else to bear in mind.

If nothing else, I feel that if an employee is injured, whether it is your responsibility or not, it puts the organisation in a bad light if they have identified as in this case, issues that are of concern. Additionally, whilst that employee is off sick, colleagues are under additional pressure to cover for them which could then lead to an increase in accidents, incidents and / or sickness thereby creating a vicious cycle.

If this reads as though I am having a pop at you or anyone else, I would like to assure everyone this is not the case, just my selection of words may not be the best use of the English language.

Posted By Philby'
Andrew/Darren,

reporting to the local council, that will be a good one...a little more insight for you:

this is the council and , yes, you've guessed it, it is our corporate contact centre....

The decision to move to this site was taken months before I arrived on the scene and was two fold. One, to have a central site for all the LA services, and secondly, to 'consolidate' the services into a 'holistic service' NOT my words...but your probably right, maybe political.

Going back to the issues, all have been identified and management are aware, in writing. HR have also been made aware but believe that local management, and the heads of the service should make the decision on how to control

...to an extent I concur....

HR were asked for a black and white answer , see only black and white in policy and procedure, and gave one, no duty, ergo no extra provisions.

I advise, suggest controls, they decide how far they want to go and how many resources they wish to commit. The ball is in their court, however, I have expressed that the issue requires urgent redress, something that should have been considered afore they moved.

thanks again for input

Philby'