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#1 Posted : 02 April 2007 15:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By robert sherred
I have been asked by a safety representative whether to comply with the new smoking legislation in public places, that we may need to remove the glass from our outside smoking stations?
Apparently there is specific instances of this happening in Scotland.
It appears a bit overkill, but does anyone have any experience of Scotish leglislation or knowledge of the forthcoming English legislative requirements.
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#2 Posted : 02 April 2007 15:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alan Hoskins
Legislation requires less than 50% enclosed. We shall be modifying our shelters where required.

I do agree with you that it's overkill though.

Alan
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#3 Posted : 02 April 2007 16:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By Clarke Kent the 2nd
If it has more than one side not including the roof then they will need removing
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#4 Posted : 02 April 2007 16:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By RichardJ
This is crazy!
Is a smoking shelter a premise (building)?
If your providing a dedicated smoking shelter/hut surely you want a sign to say 'smoking only' and be 100% enclosed so that smoke can't escape and risk others!
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#5 Posted : 02 April 2007 17:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Richard,

sorry but the UK legislation is "substantionally unenclosed" which means less than three sides. And windows and doors don't count.

I'm just waiting for a bus shelter to be challenged in court.

Silly perhaps. French legislation is "totally enclosed", with "adequate" ventilation. Comes from the same EU source.

There you go.

Merv
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#6 Posted : 02 April 2007 19:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave West
THAT 50% does not include doors but put yourselves in their shoes for a moment. They know people will be looking for loopholes in how to get around the new legislation and if they did not have this rule for the shelters then people will be having conservatories as smoke shelters etc.

I dont see people analysing other regs for ways of getting round them so why this legislation?


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#7 Posted : 02 April 2007 20:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
Enclosed and substantially enclosed premises
2. —(1) For the purposes of section 2 of the Act, premises are enclosed if they—


(a) have a ceiling or roof; and

(b) except for doors, windows and passageways, are wholly enclosed either permanently or temporarily.


(2) For the purposes of section 2 of the Act, premises are substantially enclosed if they have a ceiling or roof but there is—



(a) an opening in the walls; or

(b) an aggregate area of openings in the walls,


which is less than half of the area of the walls, including other structures that serve the purpose of walls and constitute the perimeter of the premises.

(3) In determining the area of an opening or an aggregate area of openings for the purposes of paragraph (2), no account is to be taken of openings in which there are doors, windows or other fittings that can be opened or shut.

(4) In this regulation "roof" includes any fixed or moveable structure or device which is capable of covering all or part of the premises as a roof, including, for example, a canvas awning
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#8 Posted : 03 April 2007 10:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Dave

I am not sure people are 'analysing these regs for a way round them', but rather trying to find a sensible and legal way to implement them!

Ray
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#9 Posted : 03 April 2007 11:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By LynneR
if you peruse the Smoke Free England website there are details in the published guide (freely available) as to what constitutes a suitable smoking shed.
you can find it in the download resources section. all downloads are free!
there is a similar site for Wales, Scotland (already implemented) and Northern Ireland (end of this month).
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#10 Posted : 03 April 2007 17:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Siobhan MacLennan
As previously stated, it has to be less than 50% enclosed... it can have 4 sides and a roof (obviously) but try having 2 access points and instead of complete walls look at having it enclosed in a 'banner' fashion with gaps above and below on all 4 sides. Sounds like a lot of hassle, but it seems to comply fully and gives the best protection from the elements!!
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#11 Posted : 03 April 2007 19:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave West
Raymond, I have been reading posts for weeks about people talk about how unfair it is, how smoking does no harm and how doing things with the shelter may be a way of making it more enclosed.

I make a simple post and you give me an exclamation mark at the end of your message.

Dave

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#12 Posted : 03 April 2007 21:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By safety medic
Its quite easy, dont provide the hut then the local authority cant do you for not complying with the regs. You are not required by law to provide the hut. Unless you are on a Refinery or other similar installation why take on the hassle.
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