Posted By Bill Parkinson
I know of instances in my area of police stopping vehicles and fining people. There have also been some cases in the local press where people have been taken to court and fined but would suggest it is whether the police deem it as a priority. Currently in our area they have issued tickets and penalty points to 207 people driving whilst using hand held mobile phones so this seems to be the campaign at present.

Posted By Aileen Williams
I wouldn't think that many claims would succeed if the injured were not wearing seat belts at the time. Another example of parents putting their own convenience before the safety of their children. Just as irritating are those people who insist on letting their small yappy dog sit on the rear parcel shelf (a distraction to following drivers and a potential missile in the event of an accident) or - even worse - on the driver's lap.

Posted By Mir-cat
I too totally agree and just to prove how people do not consider the risks...

I was sitting in the passenger seat in a garage while the driver had gone in to pay for their petrol, and I noticed a lady coming back to her large four wheel drive car (at the next pump) with a couple of children - one about 8 or 9yrs and one about 5yrs.

She proceeded to let the 9yr old into the back and shut the door and then sat the 5 yr old in the front passenger seat and struggled with him to strap the seatbelt in place while shouting at the one in the back to sit down and be quiet.

My point? Well apart from the fact that the older one did not put on a belt, the younger one had been put in the front (illegal under 12yrs I believe) and neither of them had proper booster seats as I believe is now required by law (or am I wrong with that one?).
She then went round to the drivers door and almost needed climbing gear to get in (very small lady - very large car).

As a driver (and a mother) I wonder what would happen if an incident occurred. Would the small person be able to handle the large car sufficiently to prevent her unrestrained child from going through the windscreen or the small one being garroted by the seat belt in an emergency stop or an accident.

Posted By Bill Parkinson
The comment that they are not hurting anyone but themselves is not correct as vehicle drivers etc faced with a child running into their path will take steps to avoid a collision which then can result in other people becoming injured.

You also forget that this is a discussion forum for people involved with health and safety and as a profession we do make comments about other people's behaviour whether they put themselves at risk or others.

Posted By J Knight
Hi Rob,

I have mixed feelings about this; in essence you're right about the right to make decisions involving only personal risk, but there are a few other factors as you well know, though I have my doubts about their validity as arguments. One is that there is a cost to bear for all of us if individuals injure themselves. It costs a good six figure sum to sort out a serious road casualty, and that comes from everybody's NI and general taxation. Then there's the poor blighters who have to clean up and cart any bits off to hospital, they would much rather not have to do that, I'm sure. And finally, there's an attitude thing, and this I do agree with. Driving a car is a socially involved act, and is an earned privilege. Too many people see it in purely selfish terms as a right, and will default on their side of the licence as it suits. Not wearing seatbelts is part of that problem, and the attitude problem is, in my opinion, the worst one we currently face on the roads, as drivers and as safety professionals.

In other words, its the law, a licence is issued on condition that the driver keeps to the law. If they don't like it, they can lobby their MP, but in the meantime they should just do it,

John

Posted By peter gotch
and Rob, the driver who doesn't use their seat belt is often the driver using the hand held, and/or driving through red light....definitely not only putting themselves at risk, but the rest of us too.

I run the gauntlet of getting to/from office across the road at the traffic lights on a daily basis.

Can assure you that at very busy junction, waiting for the green man is NOT the signal to cross.

Warning indicators....

4x4 or
Personalised number plate or
Phone or
Broadcasting loud music with windows open

often = will run the red light.

Regards, Peter

Posted By John J
Peter,
as a 4x4 driver I'm disappointed you are doing exactly what we often accuse the press of doing and taking a minority of individuals and using them as a basis for pointing the finger at all members of that group.

I've recently read the 'Grumpy Old Mens Handbook' and I feel it may be usefull reading for all of us here. I certainly identified myself in it and one or two others are demonstrating the worrying traits.

The best lesson I have ever experienced with seatbelts was as a 17 year old lad in my mates car. On the day the mandatory seatbelt law came in we were at tech college. I put on my belt but he said 'I'm not wearing a belt because I know how to drive'.
He then proceeded to wheelspin off the gravel car park. As soon as the wheels gripped on the tarmac road the car changed direction and slammed into a lamp post. Result - I was fine and he lost four of his front teeth on the steering wheel. He had been driving for two weeks.

John

Posted By tez
I see the chat has taken a interesting twist.

My concern, expressed by many comments posted here, is about the costs we are forking out, through claims,nhs,insurance premiums, police,fire etc etc etc when drivers and passengers have been involved, that others have to pick up.

That is my issue.....

Its not about being nanny state, its about all the insurance costs we as householders, employers and drivers or cars pay out for every year, that are rising due to claims, which are a mixture of genuine and fraudulent...

Posted By peter gotch
John J

On the contrary I did not tar all with the same brush.

However, years of dynamic risk assessments, and observation of one of the busiest junctions in Glasgow - the M8 off ramp from the Kingston Bridge leads onto Bothwell Street where I work - demonstrates a clear correlation between a number of behaviours [as stated - and often in multiple] and the running of red lights.

Regards, Peter

Posted By John J
Peter,

Having only used this junction once, last February, I bow to your greater experience and courage!
I didn't run the light so I may have helped improve the frequency rate for 4x4s

John