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Posted By Alexander Falconer Currently trying to draft out a simplistic procedure for identifying legal and other requirements which may affect the organisation.
I do have some examples, however due to the amount of UK legislation available, these run into pages and pages.
Not interested in generating reams and reams of pages, only interested in a simplistic approach to which our management team will embrace and take ownership of their own areas.
HAs anyone got a simplistic procedure that is no more than 3/4 pages maximum, the less the better.
The concept I am trying to get is the managers involved in identifying the legal requirements within their own areas - obviously Engineering Manager has different legal issues in comparison with an office or even HR management.
Regards
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Posted By Andy Brazier My opinion is that the only thing people really need to understand is that risks have to be as low as reasonably practicable (ALARP). Communicating more detailed legal requirements is rarely effective and often counter productive.
What people need is practical advice about how they achieve and demonstrate risks are ALARP. This will require them to look into best practice, guidance and legislation, but my opinion is that starting with the legislation is the tail wagging the dog.
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Posted By James365 I would point you in the direction of the Department of Constitutional Affairs' Pre-Action Protocol for Personal Injury Claims, Annex B (Standard Disclosure Lists), Sections A-M (phew!) (find it at http://www.dca.gov.uk/ci...prot_pic.htm#protannex-3). Whilst by no means comprehensive, it gives a good insight into the information that is required as a matter of course to help the employer show they haven't (or indeed have) been negligent in the event of an accident which leads to a civil action. The inference is therefore that if you have tackled the relevant issues raised in an appropriate manner, you may be considered as having reasonably addressed many of your legal H&S responsibilities in the workplace. This shouldn't be the sole resource you use when puting your guide together, but it does give a heads-up on what issues are likely to be investigated in the event of an accident (i.e. it's things that should have been addressed). I may have shot off at a slight tangent, but it is a very useful aide memoire when appraising management systems.
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Posted By Ian G Hutchings Alexander
I would advise against getting managers to go through this approach. Perhaps they may need some awareness training, but I would suggest the H&S pro's role is to review the law and advise on its practical application.
Cheers
Ian
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Posted By Alexander Falconer There have been several good points highlighted, however what I am trying to establish is how the company can identify their legal & other requirements, which is a key clause of both ISO 14001 & OHSAS 18001 management systems.
My intention is not to teach those managers in becoming a legal expert, but to formalise their input of some sort.
At the end of the day, we HSE practitioners cannot be available 24/7 therefore we require the management team to have some understanding and how the legalities apply.
Certainly helps with establishing a good safety culture (thats my opinion anyway).
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Alexander
Your procedure should initially show HOW you identify the legislation and other requirements relevant to the work. For this you need to demonstrate what information resources will be used, include such as legal comentaries, journals, databases etc, not forgetting the industry standards and client requirements that affect particularly the "other requirements aspect"
Following this step you need then to show the process of deciding to what parts of the business the legal/OReq apply and how these are interpeted for use, eg review meetings or management meetings etc. Of course you will need to include the usual responsibilities and persons as with any other procedure. Like all procedures flowcharts are often the best method for ease of reference and understanding.
Whether you have a single composite list or a series of departmental/business unit risks is entirely your call. Bearing in mind that the more lists exist the more lists there are to update.
Bob
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Posted By Darren J Fraser Hi Alex
Whilst I commend what you are trying to achieve, I do not think that the managers are going to know what the legal and other requirements will be.
I would suggest a list of all the regulations and other requirements for each standard(I know this will run to several pages for each) with a simple 1 2 3 system at the side.
1 - definitely applies now
2 - may apply in the future
3 - definitely does not apply
then review this list once every 6 - 12 months, there is no reason why you could not involve managers in this review.
You only need to establish and maintain a procedure for identifying and accessing.............
The list identifies, accessing can be the following websites - HSE, Net Regs, EA etc.
So long as you can demonstrate this, you would comply with the relevant clauses.
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Darren
The only comment I would make on your methodology is the category 3. If the legislation or other requirement definitely does not apply then it should not be listed as it will only make the list, which is ultimately an output of the process, unwieldy and potentially misleading. As an auditor I would ask questions as to whether the standard requirement and legislation is properly understood.
Bob
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan There are two viable options for creating 'simplistic and valid' guidance on safety and health law.
One is to apply ergonomics - the science of work - which offers user-centred research-based frameworks for drawing together laws on safety.
As the Approved Code of Practice of the HSC Management of Health and Safety Regulations is a quite readable application of ergonomics, you can select paragraphs from it to edit frameworks for different readerships. Several other of the 1992 'six pack' documents (and their more recent updates) are also well-informed by ergonomics and more easy to relate to specific areas of application.
The other is what is commonly known as 'behavioural safety' - or more accurately behavioural psychology applied to safety. Scott Geller's 'Handbook of Safety Psychology' offers easy-to-grasp frameworks to which you can splice in relevant regulations.
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Posted By Darren J Fraser Bob
I can see what you are saying and why and valid points they are, however I would keep cat 3 for a very simple reason.
If you are working for a company that buys a new acquisition, it may not be in the sector you currently operate in and therefore what did not apply then, may apply now and it would be a prompt at the review, and lets be honest, how many times is health, safety and environmental issues thought of from the very beginning of a process, especially purchasing.
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer Hi,
Did a similar job for my company two years ago and it is still applicable with two alterations (road safety and RRFO). I suggest your first port of call is the Health & Safety at Work Act followed by the Management Regs, these need to be addressed in general terms.
Then identify what you do as a company and look at any specific sets of legislation and regulations that are applicable. Develop a list from there and go on and produce your Safety Management System by developing management processes, don't be too detailed at this stage it will develop. Get others involved in the identification process, but take a lead as a facilitator or it will grow out of proportion.
Yoy don't mention what your business does, but look at legislation and regulation in a systematic way and don't try and build an all singing and all dancing system, make it fit your company.
Took me about three weeks to develop a draft system based on what we do and it was quite easy to get senior management sign up.
Good luck.
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Posted By Alexander Falconer Bob
You read my mind, this is exactly the kind of response I was looking for (the other responses were just as equally good in some way)
The key reason I wanted management involved is that they were the experienced personnel in terms of the industry knowledge & expertise (Domestic Gas Supply & Central Heating Installation). Me - over 20 years in manufacturing, with a changeover approximately 18months ago - I know my stuff up to a point, but there is no substitute for picking the brains of the "experts" either.
Between their knowledge and my interpretation of the legislation, thats half the battle won!
On the other hand, I can claim CPD for this too!
Many thanks for all your assistance, and as a phrase from a well known 80's american cop show says
"Hey, lets all be careful out there.........!"
Have a good day
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Alexander
Remember that this part of the specification concerns the identification of legal and other requirements, not the implementation of them. The next step to put them into effect during work is within the operational control clauses. It is all too easy when thinking of the legal and other requirements to drift into how they are interpreted and put into effect.
Use the expertise of your managers at the review meetings etc to identify the if applicable and to what extent questions. It is also useful to include mechanisms for communication of changes in L and OR as well, or at least refer to your communication procedure.
Drop me a line if need be.
Bob
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