Posted By Dave Stevenson
Hi,

I cannot find reference to the legislation for this issue for England or FAQ's on the DEFRA website.

Can anyone help me out?

Thanks

Dave

Posted By Dave Dowan
Hi Dave try this site ,


http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/


Regards Dave

Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Hi Dave

There is a publiction issued by HMG which says:
"Once the new law comes into effect, it will be the legal responsibility of anyone who controls or manages smokefree premises and vehicles to prevent people from smoking in them.

You will have to demonstrate that you have taken reasonable stpes to meet the requirements of the new law. These might include:
1. removing ashtrays,
2. introducing a smokefree policy,
3. training staff to understand the new law and what thier responsibilities are."

It is clear that it is against the law to smoke in any vehicle used for work purposes by more than one person even when it is used by more than one person at different times.

Hope this helps

Bob.

Posted By Ian D.
Sorry to raise this again put I need to circulate our new policy asap.

Company cars - Can company car driver smoke in these cars when travelling alone and when using the car for private use i.e at night

I have rung smokefree England and received conflicting advice

The term used "primarily for private purpose". Does this relate to hours i.e 8 hours at work and 16 hours at home therefore primarily used for private use or the driver travels 200 mile a day on company business and 20 miles a day private mileage therefore primarily use is business use

Also if two smokers are travelling together in the same car, then this car becomes a no smoking car because we have to protect each employee from the effects of passive smoke from the other smoker.

So to recap - When company cars are allocated to individuals, who do not as a matter of routine carry passengers, are those individuals allowed to smoke in these cars when alone... I can't help thinking it would have been a lot simpler if the Government had put no smoking in company registered cars in the regs

Confused rant over

Regards

Ian

Posted By Robert K Lewis
I think we should all remember that company cars are rarely defined by the company as purely for personal use. Most have requirements that the car should be available for use by an authorised company employee should it be reasonably requested when it is not in use by the allocated driver.

On this basis I think most company cars fall within the smoke free premises or vehicles definition under the regulations.

Bob

Posted By Tabs
Michael T ... yes you have to display the sign.

By July 2nd England will look like a giant case of the measles.

I think it is ridiculous to have to sign every single building - why not put up signs where smoking IS permitted? (a lot fewer signs)

We never had to put up signs to say "seat belts compulsory" or "do not use hand held mobile whilst driving" or "theft is not permitted on these premises" ... *sigh*

Sorry, time for a rub-down with the Radio Times again (do they still sell that?)

Posted By Brigham
Going through the same issue as well. We found the Scots version easy but the biggest problem is company cars in England.

Apart from regularly "sniffing" every car, we're not sure how to enforce this ludicrous rule. Isn't it better to give each driver a sticker to make up his/her mind how he uses his/her car

Also, surely by the requirement to have no smoking signs in (most) company vehicles, this highlights this fact and may make them out as a more rewarding target for car thieves!

Posted By Paul Leaman
Even simpler answer, people should give up smoking.

Posted By Rob T
Hey DRB - Brilliant!!!! I wish that was one of mine!

Posted By Dave West
Sorry Debbie but you are so wrong. John is right. Please remember that your management and employees rely on you to give them the correct advice so not only can they protect their workers but also prevent them from prosecution. Have you spoke to smokefree England, read the regs or even spoken to the lease company? Although they don't reel it off word for word its banned in vehicles used primarily for work. You cant even smoke in it if you will at some point carry passengers even if they smoke. The first post says it all in that they should of just banned it.

I apologise if my post comes across strong but really think that if this was a different regulation unconnected with smoking, people would not be looking for loopholes and reading what they want to read.

For months i have read posts talking of ways of finding ways around the regs and as Health and Safety Professionals where is the professional in that?

Posted By Brigham
Robert, There is a group of drivers in my company who have need cars on a lease basis and the contract they have is between the suppliers and themselves, making it a private agreement. To all intents and purposes, it is their car, just as much as the lease options available from most manufacturers. These employees are paid an allowance for these cars by the company, I believe that this principle is tax efficient. As this is their car, how can/should we impose this draconian measure on our employees and how can it be enforced?

The Scots version of the smoking ban is far more sensible inasmuch, company cars are exempt. English lawmakers should have paid more attention to it when setting their own version.

Posted By Robert K Lewis
It is, at the point you describe and under the terms stated, no longer a company car. It is rather a private car for which the company makes an allowance.

We need to be very clear in distinction between vehicles supplied by the company and those leased etc by individuals in their own name, albeit with a cash allowance from the company.

This latter group are not classed within the regulations.

Bob

Posted By Brigham
Re my previous post, it is accepted that the cars mentioned are privately owned but if they are used "primarily" for work and they are, they do come under the ban! It is this rather pathetic application of the law that is causing most consternation and is really upsetting a lot of drivers, including the non-smokers who don't want to have to place ugly stickers in their cars. I re-iterate a comment in my first e mail, is it possible that by displaying no smoking stickers in company cars highlight this fact and therefore make them more prone to break in?

Posted By Heather Collins
I agree that this is confusing.

Advice from my legal dept has been as follows:

1. Company-owned pool cars. Clearly smoke-free within the Regs - signs to go into all vehicles.

2. Company-owned or company-leased cars allocated to an individual. So-called "company cars". Are used for work and may be re-allocated to others under certain circumstances as described earlier in this thread. Therefore must be smoke-free and stickers will be issued to the indivudal who currently have these cars.

I believe this also applies to the situation Bob described above "We have a number of company car drivers who say they are not used for business. They say they do not claim a petrol allowance therefore they are not using it for business. Although they drive to business meetings in these cars. They also carry other members of staff in them occasionally." If they use them to drive to business meetings then how can they say they aren't being used for business!

3. Cars which are owned or leased by individuals who receive a cash allowance for them. These are not likely to have their majority use as business and they cannot be allocated to anyone else we do not consider signs necessary. However we will be reminding all the recipients of car cash allowance that they must not smoke if they take passengers anywhere on business. The same will apply to drivers of provate cars (no cash allowance) who drive on business.

Don't even get me started on the flippin' smoking shelter....