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Posted By halesowen Baggie
An outbase is planning to have its electrical system overhauled, it will take about 6-8 weeks.
The timescale suggests it is notifiable but will the work be considered to be CDM?
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Posted By John Caboche
Yes, regulation 2 in reference to the definition of construction work.
Specifically section (e).
It's on page 66 of the ACoP.
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Posted By David G C
As "churchill" would say - OOOOOh Yesss!!!
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Posted By halesowen Baggie
What if the work was to be done in segments of less than 30 days?
If say the electrical work was broken down into segments (areas of the factory unit), with a day or week being taken to 'break up' the job required.
I use this argument because I know that the customer may 'try and get round CDM'.
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Posted By David G C
As you are aware the application of CDM has changed, with the “more than 4 persons on site” rule being removed, so even if there is only one person involved in construction work, the CDM Regulations apply.
All days on which construction works takes place count towards the period of construction work. Holidays and weekends do not count if no construction work takes place on these days
There are defined construction works which are subject to CDM of which the client still has a duty to ensure the works are properly managed with regard to health and safety notifiable or not. Except where the project is for a domestic client.
I should suggest you check with the definitions to see whether your work applies or not as the case maybe, also check the notification threshold i.e last more than 30 days
Regards
David
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Baggie
If the client wishes to separate these works into two projects then that is his choice. However from a consultancy stance this is two jobs to mobilise and hence two sets of fees. The client must decide which way to go but as Dave says there is very little to gain as things such as information, co-ordination and co-operation betwen parties and others, principles of prevention etc still apply to non-notifiable work.
Bob
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Posted By Crim
CDM yes - notifiable - only if it qualifies under the regs.
If low risk with a fully competent contractor I cannot see what the gain would be either way, except for the appointment of CDM-C and PC. The safety will still be the same and the electrical contractor would probably be appointed PC.
The Client could appoint itself CDM-C as long as all necessary information is provided I see no problem.
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Posted By David G C
The issues I can see would be If the above approach is taken you might like to consider whether there are adequate insurances in place for those acting as PC and CDM C and likewise for any Client to ensure they have adequate insurance if appointed as these positions themselves.
Regards
David
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Posted By Jason Warren
You should be advising the client that splitting the project in to smaller segments is frowned upon by the HSE. I always remember there was a case study in the old guidance about term maintenance projects. In which single jobs may include the fixing of a tap, changing a light fitting etc. The guidance suggested however, that this should be viewed as one larger project and is therefore both CDM'able and notifiable. Would agree that the cost to make 1 job into numerous smaller jobs would be more costly. Why avoid cdm and the appointment of a cdm co-ordinator. Remember that even if a cdm co-ordinator is not appointed that cdm applies to all construction work and the client, designers and contractor will still have duties to abide by, so there is very little savings. Regards, jason
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Posted By Jay Joshi
It is only Part 3 that sets out additional management duties which apply to projects above the notification threshold (projects lasting more than 30 days, or involving more than 500 person days of construction work). These additional duties require particular appointments or particular documents which will assist with the management of health and safety from concept to completion.
Part 1 of the Regulations deals with matters of interpretation and application.
Part 2 - Itt covers general management duties and applies to all construction projects, (including those which are non-notifiable)
Part 4 of the Regulations applies to all construction work carried out on construction sites, and covers physical safeguards which need to be provided to prevent danger. Duties to achieve these standards are held by contractors who actually carry out the work, irrespective of whether they are employers or are selfemployed.
Duties are also held by those who do not do
construction work themselves, but control the way in which the work is done. In each case, the extent of the duty is in proportion to the degree of control which the individual or organisation has over the work in question.
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Posted By Shaun Brennan
i would say that any client wanting to get around the CDM thing, you may need to educate them in CDM or walk away. Knowingly advising the client wrongly could have some serious consequences on your part if the old brown stuff hits the fan, with the client then replying "well i took his advice". splitting the project into bite size segments is in no ones best interests, both financially or time wise, you may as well just set him a planned maintenance programme up!!
Bugsy3967
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Posted By Christopher Kelly
I understood that the 30 day threshold is no longer relevant. No of man hours only.
Regards,
Chris
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Chris
There are two points, either
30 days duration
or
500 operative days
Whichever is the earlier that detemine the need to notify.
Bob
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Posted By Shaun Brennan
Baggie
Also bear in mind that a man day is if a worker steps on site to do construction work regardless of how much time he spends on site, it could be half an hour it could be eight hour days
Bugsy
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