Posted By Iain N Morrison
Dear All

On the 6th of April this year CDM 2007 came into force. However I have a problem in interpreting paragraph 88 in the ACoP. Where on one hand it says that the designer and the CDM-C can be the same person but on the other hand it is critical that they also have sufficient independence.

Is it good practice that whoever does the designs that he/she is also in a position to be critical of their own design in terms of health and safety?

Can the designer who has designed the construction project also be the CDM-C?

Is their sufficient independence for the same person to critically assess his/her own designs in terms of health and safety in design?


Thanks



Regards Iain

Posted By Robert K Lewis
I totally agree with Richard. The difficulty in interpretation occurs because we continue to think in terms of individuals and not companies/organisations.

For me the paragraph is about the CDM C having separate management to that of the actuial designers etc with suitable information barriers if necessary - Much as with the Design-Build co-ordinator.

Bob

Posted By Iain N Morrison
Hi
Thanks for your responses.
I have asked this question before but I thought that I would give a further airing on this forum.
The HSE has given an example of "sufficiently independent" as being exactly the same concept as the competent person in the LOLER Regs ie when the competent person is an employee within the same organisation that he is checking lifting equipment for, he should be able to condemn equipment without the fear of being sacked.
However it hasn't answered the question.

Another HSE Inspector has suggested that it should be a different person.(another set of eyes was the term he used)

APS (Association of Project Safety) policy is that the roles should be separate and finally Ive spoken to a number of Past Planning Supervisors (now CDM-C's) and they also agree and has been the case in their experiences even under CDM 1994.

Anyway I'm having a debate with designer colleagues who argue that paragraph 88 clearly says that a designer and CDM-C can be a combined role for small repetitive jobs. The problem I have is who decides. Yes I hear you say the Client does but when the Client thinks CDM means "Cadbury's Dairy Milk" what chance do you have.

I'm in the process of drawing up management arrangements and this aspect of the ACoP is fairly important.

I'm sure the only way that a definitive answer can be found is when its decided in the courts and then its too late.

My view is (and agree with the previous responders) is that its good practice to keep both roles separate.

Thanks for your comments and if anyone else would like to share their thoughts either way, then please do as its useful for me as to how others in the business of H&S address the ambiguities within the legislation.

Thanks
Regards
Iain