Posted By Merv Newman
I've just received my CPD update request and I, too, am questioning the value of it all.

I now have to go over my files for the last two years. I didn't go to any branch meetings, nor get involved in any IOSH activities. I haven't written any articles or books. No courses of study.

About all I do do is keep up with the legislation (subscription service) and with best practices. (and I do that by logging on to various web sites. No written records)

And try to advise my clients on their best, reasonably practicable, course of action.

Works for me. And them.

Now how many browny points will that get me ? (and I've already got the badge that says "I know how to generate heat by rubbing two boy scouts together")

Oh. And I log on here some nights. Does that count?

Merv

CMIOSH, CSP (for now)

Posted By Raymond Rapp
Well, three against...perhaps not sure. Having gained my chartered status this year I guess I am still in the 'honeymoon' period. I did wonder how rank and file members would react to the impositions of the new status and whether there would be any tangible benefits.

I am still sitting on the fence with this one. Although I believed it was a bit crass to liken our profession to others such as accountants, surveyors and so on the basis that they are chartered. Some may aspire to that but the reality for most is that we are worlds apart.

Regards

Posted By Ian P
I am at the GradIOSH stage myself and halfway through the IPD process. I have been told that having CMIOSH would help if I was looking for another job but that might never happen and if it did my experience of the area I am in would count for a whole lot more than some letters after my name. I have wondered if I am wasting my time and MIIRSM would be achievable now without all the hoops to jump through but I will stick with it now that I have gone this far albeit not 100% convinced.

Posted By ITK
I worked hard to attain CMIOSH and I am proud to be a Chartered member and whilst ever I ply my trade in this arena will continue to participate in CPD.

If you do not like whats on tv I assume you change channels, the same applies here, it really is a matter of choice.

ITK CMIOSH Ford Driver.

Posted By CFT
Steve

Nice solid points of which I find myself slightly envious of the way you have worded them.

Hats off to you.

CFT

Posted By MAK
I've worked dam* hard over the last years from graduating as a mature student with a BSc and not being able to find employment. To starting as a junior some time ago in my current career and finally completing a 3 year long masters programme in H&S, I can honestly say I will be finally proud to consider myself chartered on 01 July.

To be deemed chartered in any profession surely must be considered a boon for any individual? and their employer?

If some employers dont know the difference from a membership where you do have to serve time and commit to a continual development programme etc etc, while usually working in a relevant field compared to paying a subscription fee for some letters after your name, then the onus is on us to explain the difference and argue our worth.

Wee Davy, I sympathise with you, this afternoon especially!. I think we all understand how thankless working in H&S can be sometimes. Its easy to become demoralised but I'd still choose the CPD programme. Otherwise, whats the alternative?

I work with some extremely experienced H&S guys who are not on a CPD programme and have been out of education or their original starting disciplines for a while, they dont all know how to keep abreast of changes and so somtimes seem to be ill-equipped to be able adapt to them. So if CPD is one route where I can legitimately attempt ( and get my employer to commit to funding) to keep abreast with best practice, legislation and practical applications then so be it.

Ian P, keep at it, hopefully you'll find it worthwhile at the end!

Posted By JMM
Interesting that not one respondent to this thread so far has commented on or responded to wee davey's' criticism. He states "Conversely I know many CMIOSHs I wouldn't give house room, never mind a job". In my experience he has a valid point.

Posted By Gff
I don't think the Wee man is having a dig, I think there is a low moral or esteem issue here, perhaps he has not reaped the benifits of doing the CPD

so Davey, what is making you feel as though your efforts are not being valued, are you not being rewarded sufficiently, what kind of employer do you work for.......

Posted By Hazel Harvey
All,
I often see a blurring of the distinction between professional recognition such as CMIOSH and undertaking CPD and although the two are linked they are not the same thing.
CPD is about maintaining and developing your competence to practice in health and safety and to be quite frank should be carried out by everybody who gives advice, implements or develops health and safety irrespective of whether they are a member of IOSH. CPD is about keeping up to date and if you don't do that, then to be quite honest how can you cope in the everyday world?
Where your membership of IOSH comes in is that there is a requirement to demonstrate that you have a commitment to this and it is so ingrained within the culture of the profession and the professional body itself that it is written into the to code of conduct (point 4). It is this commitment that the profession demonstrates by requiring all its members to demonstrate their CPD activities and it is this commitment that most employers are looking for as part of a person's professional profile. You may currently believe that employers don't recognise this but the profile of IOSH members (at all levels) became much higher when we received our recognition via Royal Charter. It still has some way to go but look at the 'Get the Best' campaign, this is the start of much more outward focused effort to raise the profile of good health and safety advice.

It is also worth remembering that IOSH is its members and it is IOSH members on an individual basis that make the difference to the development of the profession as a whole. By committing to CPD on a personal basis it also raises the profile of the commitment of the whole profession.Lets face it the administration of CPD (and that is what is at question not the development activities themselves I believe)is not a massive requirement (less than a tax return!)and on a going forward basis with the on-line scheme you can even minimize this once you get used to using the scheme. With the new concept in this scheme ANY activity which you can justify as development can be used as a submission.

So whether you should be a member of IOSH and be a part of the profession is really a matter for your own personal situation,requirements and consience, the CPD is just an integral part of professional commitment.

Hazel Harvey
Director of Professional Affairs

Posted By Crim
I renewed my chartered status last January without too much CPD effort. The biggest problem was remembering what I had done during the previous 2 years. I now have more resolve to record as much as possible to make it even easier next time.

It's a good idea to think about doing something new/different and gaining some extra point for that. This helps to keep the brain cells alive.

Chartered status is something that proves we are good at what we do and the CPD system also proves we are good at what we do. Other institutions have similar methods of achieving and maintaining their chartered status and I'm sure they recognise our own achievement.

Don't knock it just get on with it and be thankful that our institution has gained the royal charter which elevates those of us who qualify, and gives those not yet qualified something to aim at.

Posted By Ian G Hutchings
There are many ways to skin a cat.

To keep up CPD there are loads of different things you can do, including developing training courses, writing papers/articles, helping your business and clients.

In any industry or profession there will be people who represent a professional body well or who don't. If someone is a poor architect it has never occurred to me that RIBA is an ineffective organisation.

CMIOSH has been worthwhile because it is a reward for the time and effort involved; it is also a growing necessity in my field as a health and safety professional and a consultant. I am finding that more and more clients are asking about my competence and qualifications and CMIOSH seems to satisfy their initial questioning.

It is down to personal desire and preference. If you do not see a need for it and it is not needed for your job, why do it?

Posted By Pam Hickey-Jenkin
I look forward to the day when I can finally upgrade my membership from TechIOSH to CMIOSH...as I like others have worked 'bloomin' hard (nearly said another word.!..oops!) to get this far....

But I too have to agree with what Wee Davey has mentioned, that there are some individuals out there who do the rest of us no favours & have their CMIOSH...sometimes not from having done all the work themselves when going thru the NVQ route a few years back (I know, very controversial...but sorry guys, it has happened)....

I also know of some H&S professionals who have trodden this road for many many years, who do not have MIOSH/CMIOSH, but whose opinions and advice I highly respect and trust.

I do totally support a structured approach to assessing an element of competency required by us....but I would urge many to remember (especially some employers out there..)...that letters after a name are not the be all and end all of an individuals competence...and that there are many who may not bother going forward to the heady heights of CMIOSH status, but that this does not make them any the less experienced or competent.

Onwards and upwards though....

Pam

Posted By David S Burt
I agree with 9-ship that under the Management Regs there is only the need for you demonstrate that you are competent. But it is worth remembering that the only time this principle will be tested is in a Court of Law when things have generally gone tragically wrong.

Under these circumstances the first question that a Barrister (very experienced, well qualified and extremely competent in their role), will ask you when you are in the witness box `Please tell me about how you were deemed to be competent to carryout your duties?`

This can become a very interesting session that could go on for a considerable time (generally it can take several hours or longer). During which time the nice barrister is trying to discredit you (only doing his/her job-its not personnel you understand). I am sure that if you explain that you did not finish your Diploma NVQ or other formal qualification, or you decided not to become a full member of a recognised Professional Institute that the discussion will become very interesting and challenging for you.

Personally I would prefer to stand there and have a very brief conversation about my competence before moving on to the specific circumstances surrounding why you are appearing be it for the defence or the prosecution. Having dealt with the criminal case then there will always be the Civil proceedings.

Now as I am sure you are aware from your studies, in the Civil case the burden of proof required is significantly different. However the same questions over the subject of your competence will still arise. The interrogation will be just as focused as the criminal case with your credibility once again on the line.

Perhaps being made to feel extremely uncomfortable and under extreme pressure and stress is your idea of a good few days out. If this is not the case you may wish to complete a course of formal structured training (recognised by say the Qualifications Curriculum Authority if you work in the UK), couple this with industry specific experience and then gain membership of a recognised Chartered Professional Institute where CPD is also required to maintain your competence.

So is being a CMIOSH really worth while? Now that is a question that only an individual can decide on but I know which side of the fence I like to be on.

Posted By 9-Ship
Note I didn't say that I personally wasn't CMIOSH qualified - which I am (as soon as my cheque clears, just obtained CMIOSH this month).

My point is, to achieve it, you do not have to be a slave to the IOSH/NEBOSH qualification route - and the excessive training fees of consultancies.

It's not for everybody, and takes possibly slightly longer, but I went via the Open University for about 25% of the cost of some of the private training consultancies.

Also while we should be able to demonstrate our own personal competence, don't we all make decisions based on advice given by others e.g. electricians, occ hygienists etc - and who truthfully checks out their credentials to the extent that you probably should.

As regards salaries - afraid market forces cannot be ignored, whether CMIOSH or not, their is a limit to what general industry/commerce will ever pay. Apart from the lucky few who get pretty good salaries, most will only get average to slightly above average salaries.

In my view the better salaries come in the nuclear, process/oil/gas sectors i.e. high risk industries, and these jobs nearly always ask for additional engineering/science qualifications to degree level - the safety/IOSH qualifications being seen as a bonus. This is the sector I work in.

The only other way, I think, to get an above average salary is to run your own consultancy (in an already swamped market place) or to work the stupid hours of the Middle East/Dubai type contracts - 60hrs week etc, see the other recent postings on this site for more info.

Posted By peter gotch
Gff,

Keeping up to date with legislation and practices is CPD.

I have just completed my 7th CPD cycle. Not many points claimed from course attendance.

Lots from personal investigation, e.g. in last cycle, finding out about the law in Ukraine

Regards, Peter

Posted By Frank Macleod
9-ship,

Which route did you take with the Open University. Curious as i am cnsidering doing some more courses with the OU myself.

Regards
Frank

Posted By Bill Parkinson
Having been in this profession for 20 years I am pleased that I attained the chartered status. Yes currently it is not well known in the industrial world but it will be and therefore as time progresses it will become more recognised.

As for helping in securing jobs then there are some job adverts which are now asking for chartered status so it is beginning.

However, at the end of the day it is a matter of choice and if you want it then you work for it. In other professions there is very few routes to obtain chartered status (look at some of the engineering professions).

As for maintaining CPD it isn't all that hard if you look at the areas covered. I have not struggled at anytime over the years in attaining sufficient points even though I do not attend many conferences or IOSH branch meetings due to work commitments. If you develop some training, policies etc. then you should have no problems.

As for being proud of my CMIOSH status? Well I wear my lapel badge most of the time to show this and also inform people that Chartered Safety & Health Practitioners now exist!