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#1 Posted : 13 June 2007 09:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Matt4320
I have just started the level 4 nvq and to be honest i am a little bit baffled by it all. The nvq format is new to me and my assessor is a little bit hard to get information from. I have started the g3 mode, can anyone give me any tips, help or even better some examples of work they have completed, it would be much appreciated. If you can help me in any way please e-mail me on m.blackburn@ddporter.co.uk Thanks guys.
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#2 Posted : 13 June 2007 09:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Homer
emailed you directly.

I am at last unit now unit 3 and I'm scratching my head in confusion, can anyone guide me through unit 3 of the vq
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#3 Posted : 13 June 2007 09:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
This really makes me angry; the provider is prepared to sign you up, take your money but not explain what is involved.

Please allow me to ask you? Is it the actual content of the NVQ you don't understand, i.e. the wording, or would it be core knowledge that is preventing you form proceeding? If you clarify which way round it is I, and many others will be able to advise you appropriately.

CFT
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#4 Posted : 13 June 2007 09:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
Yes of course Homer, not a problem. What stage are you and what information do you need?

CFT
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#5 Posted : 13 June 2007 10:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Matt4320
Thanks for the help Homer.
CTF, I signed up a couple of months ago for the NVQ and recieved a disk from my course provider, nothing else, I phoned my assessor to ask when she would be visiting me to get me going and show me what was required but she said that she would not be seeing me atall, all my work should be sent through the post to her. I have no knowledge of nvq, I have passed the nebosh general but I am extreamly unsure of what is expected of me from nvq. Thanks for the help again folks.
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#6 Posted : 13 June 2007 10:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Homer
Would appreciate a breakdown of each part of the three sections into queens english i.e what exactly are they after.

Many thanks
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#7 Posted : 13 June 2007 11:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
Matt

That is ridiculous; you are fully entitled to some initial assistance from your provider and during the process. This is most unacceptable, so please contact them immediately. I suspect you are paying a few thousand pounds for the NVQ and to issue you with photo copy documentation and not see you is simply preposterous, and will be giving all the high quality providers for either C&G or OCR NVQ an extremely bad name. It is difficult to comment further at this stage until you have spoken with the provider. If you have entered into a signed contract please read carefully the contents of said document and see if it is possible to ask for a refund and go with a provider that would be grateful and deserved of your custom.

Please do not name the provider here on the forums though.

Homer

Are you making reference to additional units H14,15,16 or are you on developing own practice /H&S review & audit systems, please confirm by 'H' what remaining areas there are. Don't bother writing out anything other than numbering.There will be thirteen mandatory and 14 to 16 plus B3 are additional.

Soon as you let us know, assistance in terms of translation will arrive.

CFT
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#8 Posted : 13 June 2007 13:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Taylor14
Which goes to show NVQ`s are a waste of time (in my opinion)
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#9 Posted : 13 June 2007 14:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Geoff Ferneyhough
Peter,

It sounds more like the provider that is the problem, not the qualification.

Regards

Geoff
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#10 Posted : 13 June 2007 16:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Mace
Matt,

i ahve just started an NVQ 4 aswell, if i can be of any assistance please let me know by direct email, we could then exchange phone numbers and have more detailed discusion, this could probably help both of us in completeing the units, as they say two heads are better than one.

Regards
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#11 Posted : 13 June 2007 16:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Homer
It's H3 CFT, wait a minute that rhymes LOL
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#12 Posted : 13 June 2007 17:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Barrie Etter
Hi Guys,
I'm about to start my sixth unit mind if I buddy up and perhaps give assistance to those who have just started.

1. Email pester your tutor. Mines in Aberdeen and I'm in Warwick so ne'er the twain shall meet but having pestered I'm now receiving excellent support in Q&A to each unit. BUT there's a limit to how much they can provide in answers. You have to go out and find supporting evidence to yuor write up.
2. Matt if your g3 is the same as mine its' like meditating on how you will maintain your own standards ... a bit like contemplating your belly button!!
3. For futher info contact me direct by email.
Regards,
Badger
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#13 Posted : 13 June 2007 18:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke
Hi

It is an NVQ requirement that your work is observed in the workplace...

Oh, I just deleted a whole section of ranting then, it started to become one huge soapbox!

I am sure that every provider has a bad episode, but when you are in the know, certain companies consistantly keep turning up. Some times it is certain assessors - and they can work for a couple of providers, which makes choosing harder!

If you don't get assisted by the guys n gals here, just post again and I'll try and put some pieces together for you.

Regards

Linda
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#14 Posted : 13 June 2007 18:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
You on a soap box Linda Xland C? Never, I wouldn't believe it.

CFT
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#15 Posted : 13 June 2007 18:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Barrie Etter
I missed out my contact email: badger3000uk@yahoo.co.uk. please mark the subject NVQ as I'm snowed under with spam and the filter has given up the ghost!!!

One thing missing from earlier comments is that my NVQ is a correspondence course are the other NVQ'er the same? and if so have you read cover to cover the notes within?
As for the assessors seeing what is being produced my boss signs off a witness statement to say that I've completed the previous unit. Does that help?

Regards,

Badger
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#16 Posted : 13 June 2007 19:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke
LOL.

Welllll, I'm just trying to rectify someones elearning portfolio - as far as I can see some of the stuff the assessor couldn't download, their comments don't seem to be that encoraging or constructive from what I can see. How can anyone gain guidence from that? - Especially if you never meet the person. Rapport - any one knows what it means... Bah.

Linda
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#17 Posted : 13 June 2007 19:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke
Hi

I presume your assessor would then ring your boss to make sure he is real? Even then this is open to abuse. Not that I am doubting you or your evidence. Promise.

We get enquiries regarding the NVQ and hear comments such as, "well my mate did this, can't I?"

If a provider gets a reputation for accepting evidence that doesn't follow the standards, then it will spoil the process for the rest of the people who are competent.

Gosh that box is calling again!

Sorry.



Linda

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#18 Posted : 13 June 2007 19:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bennie
Hi folks - I am half way through my NVQ4 and have had good support from my course provider.
I was advised to start at Units 6, 7 and 8 which is all to do with risk assessment to get me into the swing of things and that helped me get going.
i have then been moving about the units so my completed ones are fairly scattered, but have had unit 3G signed off.

If I can offer any support " study buddy" which would work both ways, feel free to e mail me.

Be positive - we can do this with the excellent support available on this forum.
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#19 Posted : 13 June 2007 20:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Donk
Sorry to interrupt the thread but i have tried getting in contact with CFT regarding my IOSH and keep getting a mail delivery failure.

Can you contact me again please CFT i need the benefit of your wisdom.

I would also like to hear about these NVQ suppliers!

Regards Donk
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#20 Posted : 13 June 2007 21:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Clairey O
Like some of you, I am too am half way through my nvq 4, but have really enjoyed the journey.

I'm glad I took the time to consider providers carefully, it has made the world of difference.

If there is anything that I can do to help you please do contact me.

I enjoy the visits that my assessor does, as he sees some of the more interesting aspects to my work, and also how there are other limiting factors to the good work of safety profs.

And, Peter Taylor, thank you for your educated constructive advice, I quite sure that it is very reassuring to those who are deciding which path to take or trying the decipher what is expected of them.

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#21 Posted : 14 June 2007 06:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
Donk

Your link is not live, just click the one above me and email me a contact number. I'll call you as soon as I receive your email

Take care

CFT
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#22 Posted : 14 June 2007 06:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian P
I was so lucky having a superb assessor but from what she told me the money she was being paid wasn't exactly a fortune. This might explain why some assessors are less enthusiastic than others. No excuse of course, if they take the job on they should do it properly but I have heard horror stories before and regularly help out one candidate who only gets 5 minutes a month from his assessor at IOSH meetings. I would be happy to try to help out others if they email me.

PS Barrie can I suggest that you don't put your email address on a public forum as spammers farm addresses from them which might explain why you are being innundated with the stuff

PPS Your opinion of the NVQ system will be valid in some situations Peter but some sectors view proof of actually having done the job as more of an advantage than having sat exams.
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#23 Posted : 14 June 2007 08:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Glyn Atkinson
Some people can pass exams and remember loads of data from their Health and Safety subject matter.

In the real world, the company director wants an answer to their safety problem in plain English with currency costs for remedial works or PPE costs already estimated for them.

My memory is useless, (so much so that I forgot the wife's alarm call this morning - oops !) but I know the safety requirements in very practical terms, and I use all of the vast material on line or in print to cross reference what I am studying or working on, so that I can give an objective viewpoint on safety solutions in plain English to my directors.

That worked for me, including the NVQ route up to 5.

I admire the exam route but would fail by my own admission, whereas NVQ lets me express my work style and practice to a third party for impartial cross examination and assessment against current safety standards.

I also have written proof of my ability to access technical knowledge, the ability to communicate effectively and efficiently with senior managers and directors, and proof of my work load as achieved over the past two years from the qualification date.

My current job was gained through showing my NVQ 4 folder to an employer who wasn't 100% sure how they wanted their new man to act, so it gave two directors an insight into my work in another work area.

Oh, yeah, my wife still thinks that I'm dozy, forgetful, and how the heck did I get the job with my memory ?

Exams are not the bee all in this industry , thank heavens, or I wouldn't now be in a chartered status.

Just my personal viewpoint on a very arguable subject !
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#24 Posted : 14 June 2007 09:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By David A V Whiting
The NVQ System is a good one if used correctly and for Assessors who care it riles me when I read some of the comments on this site about poor workmanship.

As Linda hinted at, certain companies or assessors consistently keep turning up?

Like any good business decision - have you researched & asked the right questions first?

Have you created a checklist so you can compare like for like:
•Look at the Contract is it user friendly or a get out clause only?
•Does it set out clear objectives and targets for both parties?
•Part of Assessors role is to act as your mentor does it allow for this?
•Does it state you are entitled to assistance throughout the process and is it time bound?
•I remember my initial interview you don't remember everything – Do they follow up & provide written confirmation or just ask for a cheque?
•Are they interested in you as a person, can they provide benefit to you and your company?
•Do you get VALUE for your MONEY?

NVQ is a system of checks and counter balances both internal & external but are they seen to be working?

I can assure you that postings are read and that I have met senior IOSH persons at various meetings where this has been talked about before – perhaps it is time to act

David
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#25 Posted : 14 June 2007 09:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
Homer

OK, you have decided not to start at the beginning and work through and by your own admission 'H3' is your remaining module. So firstly this comes in 3 parts, H1, H2 & H3; Taking H3 as a whole, the purpose of this module is to: Develop and implement the H&S policy.

So what you must do with H3.1 is define the statutory and practical requirements of the H&S policy. This one shouldn't pose to many problems for you as it is fairly obvious what is required; think of HASAWA, common law duties, best practice and provide evidence to demonstrate that you have fully implemented such a policy, why, and what it has achieved for you both in pro-active and re-active terms where appropriate.Look at the overall structure of the company, does one policy fit all, who signs and why, last review, geographical practicalities of the existing policy, look very carefully at the arrangements sections in particular (I bet some are out of date both in legal terms and BP) Try to show how you evaluate the H&S statutory & practical requirements in respect of, inputs of materials/goods/ any services supplied/ and equipment. where you look at the input arrangements of the company do make certain you include the output elements.You can pretty much go wild on this if you want in terms of both inputs and outputs, look at waste control, environmental issues, your products, etc

H3.2: This is where you will develop the policy; look at what the current procedural arrangements are within the policy and seek to improve and develop taking into considerations legislative changes, reactive investigative results, formulate what changes are necessary to bring it up to acceptable standards, both in legal terms and best practice. Are there any restraints placed upon you or the organisation that may influence the final implementation of said policy, organisational sections and of course perhaps more importantly the direct procedural arrangements.

Provide any proof in terms of meetings with any key stakeholders regarding the policy and show if you can how you have and why you have taken the decision to review the policy.

How have you been able to establish a strategy for the overall promotion and positive commitment to the policy by any directors/managers/senior members, both on and off any shop floor, this would include any TU or safety rep involvement during and on review.

Justify to your company why you have chosen to implement an improved H&S policy with arrangements and organisational sections, this might be by email communications, letters, meeting minutes, overall training strategy etc.

With H3.3, this is where you will show how you have implemented such a policy and you would be looking to show just how you have achieved this, its thoroughness, any identified weaknesses that require immediate review and amendment, show how you have provided the necessary support within the company both technically and practically; try and show how you took on board any feedback to the implementation process, and how you would have responded.

Further to H3, as with previous modules you would be required to provide documentation to show that you have actually carried out these duties and of course the assessor will want to talk to you and question you over some of the activities; it may be that your assessor will allow a slight bit of slack on role play as your organisation may not tick every box, if so, it may be that you will l have to provide some alternative work that is similar in content. I personally advise against role play as I don't feel that you can demonstrate your competency properly.

I have tried to keep this brief and again avoided complicated terms so that you will understand what is required of you; I trust it helps you to complete this section.

Good luck

CFT




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#26 Posted : 14 June 2007 10:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Barrie Etter
Ian P
Comments noted - thanks
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#27 Posted : 14 June 2007 11:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lee Mac
Hi All,

I must say though, my assessor is a good one- I meet him each week for an hour and we go over what I have done and hope to do and he is also available on email/mobile.

Regarding the study buddy- count me in as I too am trying to work my way through the NVQ4.
Anyone wanting to join with me as a study buddy-just hit me with an email.


Cheers,

Lee

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#28 Posted : 14 June 2007 14:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andy Farrall
Matt,
I am qualified as an assessor (although in a different sector) and it really angers me to see candidates being treated in this way.

The role of the assessor is quite clear - to assist the candidate in gathering sufficient evidence of the right standard to prove competency in the subject.

If your assessor is not providing positive support and guidance then he or she is not doing their job - it's that simple.

The work of your assessor should be checked within the training company by an Internal Verifier (IV) and the work of the IV is, in turn, then checked by an independent External Verifier (EV) appointed by the awarding body.

The training company has to prove that these checking procedures are in place and working. This is done by the IV regularly inspecting a representative sample of candidate folders and recording the results. The EV will carry out a similar sampling exercise and will also examine the IV's records.

You should complain to the IV about your lack of support, and if nothing happens take your complaint to the EV.

No training company with half a brain wants to be subject of a complaint to the EV - it can cost them their registration as a training provider, and could cost them their company.

How does the NVQ work? Your assessor should have explained this at your induction meeting (if you had one) but the basic idea for NVQs is as follows:

An NVQ consists of Units, i.e. a number of broad topics.

Each Unit is broken down into Elements and each Element has its own Performance Criteria (PC) and Knowledge Requirements.

The PC is a guide to what type of evidence is required for that Unit, e.g. a written report on a specific problem; or direct observation by the assessor (or a competent witness) of your completing a specific task; or two examples of memos which you have issued to staff; etc.

The Knowledge is just that - a list detailing the specific learning points which each Element entails.

In the NVQs I've dealt with (at Levels 2, 3 and 4) the course material includes a set of grids for each Element so you can "matrix" your evidence, i.e. cross-reference the PC and Knowledge requirements against the body of evidence you have produced.

As regards the language - "NVQ speak" - that becomes easier with practice, but if something is not clear then it is the job of your assessor to support you by clarifying the meaning.

That's what they get paid for.

Hope this helps.

Andy

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#29 Posted : 15 June 2007 10:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Homer
Many thanks CFT did you ever think of becoming an assessor?
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#30 Posted : 15 June 2007 10:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
No time Homer; to busy helping candidates out on a voluntary basis, last count was eleven at varying stages.

Good luck with it, you will get there.

CFT
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