Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Hi Melanie,

I suggest you are almost there, with only one smoker you have little to do but ensure the correct signage is displayed, a company policy is in place that everyone understands and that the person who does smoke is aware that he/she is not allowed to smoke in the vehicle.

Bob.

Posted By Philip McAleenan
Melanie,
The correct legal position is to be found in the Health Act and the Smoke Free Regulations, and I include the relevant article and regulation below.

From, The Health Act 2006
6 No-smoking signs
(1) It is the duty of any person who occupies or is concerned in the management of smoke-free premises to make sure that no-smoking signs complying with the requirements of this section are displayed in those premises in accordance with the requirements of this section.
(2) Regulations made by the appropriate national authority may provide for a duty corresponding to that mentioned in subsection (1) in relation to-
(b) vehicles which are smoke-free by virtue of section 5.

From The Smoke-free (Exemptions and Vehicles) Regulations 2007
Enclosed vehicles
11. —(1) Subject to the following paragraphs of this regulation, an enclosed vehicle and any enclosed part of a vehicle is smoke-free if it is used—
(b) in the course of paid or voluntary work by more than one person (even if those persons use the vehicle at different times, or only intermittently).


Thus in the circumstances you describe; one user with no one else using the vehicle, the vehicle is exempt and no signage required.

Regards, Philip

Posted By holmezy
Melanie,

assuming that your Company does not have a "no smoking in company vehicle policy".......

If a person had a company car which they only ever used themselves, never gave a lift to a colleague, never picked up strangers, never let the local garage come and collect it etc etc etc, then the vehicle wouldn't need a sign. I would think that its highly unlikely that the car will be for sole use and occupancy 100% of the time...but hey ho! I suppose they could use the vehicle for private use and carry spouses, kids etc and it still be a smoke free zone?

If the Company has a non smoking policy in Company vehicles which are also available for private use, then the dilemma is (from personal experience) how do I as a non smoker, in a non smoking car, tell ( ask..) my "smoking" wife to stop,,,bearing in mind that I like living in my house etc etc.

I think that it will be extremely difficult for the LA to police this and as long as we are all seen to be trying to stop smoking in company vehicles, life will go on.

Get your Company to introduce a "no smoking" policy for company vehicles and put little stickers on the back of the tax disc. How you monitor and ensure that every employee abides by the rules is another matter! But dont lose too much sleep over it, theres far more important things to be concerned about in this dangerous world we all live in!!

Fed up of this reg already...and its not here yet!! Its enough to make someone take up smoking, let alone quit!

Holmezy...

now off for a beer....if its still legal?

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Holmzey

Totally agree with your final sentiments. This nonsense of manadatory signage is causing total mayhem and makes the law an ass. It is a pity as the main requirements are much needed even if only for the sake of comfort and general fire prevention.

Bob

Posted By Melanie Fellows
Hi,

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Merv - unfortunately, no-one wants a sticker on their dashboards everyone (except me) drives a BMW or a Merc. I'm hoping the tax disc holder is more acceptable!

Holmezy - Really our drivers are a miserable lot - only a few of them ever go anywhere - and when they do they are alone. Also, there are company vans (which are signed and smoke-free, which could be used for passengers if it ever came up). Did you ever mention to your wife about copying dogs and sticking her head out of the car window??? (with safety glasses on obviously!!!)

Mel

Posted By Melanie Fellows
My drivers don't need a support group - they are lucky enough to drive BMW's, so that should make them happy enough (as long as they don't think about the tax costs!)

Looks like I'll have to get the scissors out and go all 'Blue Peter' - I only need 9 tax disc holders and the minimum order quantity is 50.

Mel

Posted By Melanie Fellows
I never knew that! I'm going to try it out tonight at my friends (on her dog obviously!)

Posted By JH
Melanie,

Since you seem to have found a solution, you perhaps won't welcome this further info., but when I asked our company lawyer the same question he came back and said that on the basis of the Smoke-Free Exemption & Vehicles Regs., a company car which we lease and provide to someone as part of their remuneration package is "used primarily for private purposes by a person" and thus exempt. We do have a policy against smoking when sharing vehicles with other staff, but, at least according to our lawyer, it is outside the law - we are not issuing stickers

Whether this is a correct interpretation I suppose we will only find if someone (hopefully not us) ever gets "done".

Regards

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Just to confuse the issue further with the Very Very sensible signage rules I quote

The smaller 'symbol only' sign, which consists of the international no-smoking symbol at least 70mm in diameter may instead be displayed at entrances to smokefree premises that are:

only used by members of staff. providing the premises displays at least one A5 area sign, or

located within larger smokefree premises, such as a shop within an indoor shopping centre

They cannot be used on their own in vehicles methinks!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-)

As I have said these rules are a dogs breakfast of poor thinking and gold plated jobsworth hats!

Bob

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Mel

Remember they have to be on the entrance to the premise - so outside of car doors please so they can be seen by the local inspectorate.

Bob :-)

Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Melanie, Why are you cutting up signs, go to smokefreeengland.co.uk/resouces or phone 0800 169 169 7 and request them. They arrive within four or five days, just done it myself.

Posted By Melanie Fellows
Bob,

I did get the stickers free from Smoke Free England - I'm butchering them to make them round so they go on the tax disc holders with minimum disruption.

Mel

Posted By Melanie Fellows
The only problem is that if I went to town on the whole signage issue, I'd have four window stickers (one on each entrance)and one in each compartment of the car (would that be four or five?).

I'm trying to come up with a practical workable solution that doesn't offend the drivers who pay tax on the perk of having a car (and don't smoke anyway!)

I wonder if someone has come up with a sticker that looks like it's been etched on the glass? (and whether that would be acceptable anyway?)

Posted By JPK
Hey Guys,

Some sensible chat here, maybe you could help my little dilema.

We have company directors who have company cars, they are the only cars they have!
They ALL smoke! (Probably due to me! :p)
In this wonderful new law, are they suggesting that the Directors, who have lovely cars btw, and use them for Private as well as company use, are going to be pulled and issued a fine for smoking in the cars that they use solely, and transport their families, and FRIENDS (are these members of the public??).

The likelyhood is that the CSO's that are being employed for this drastic new change are going to pull any car registered to a company!

What is going to happen in this case?

BTW: My aim is now to become a politician, just to have a fag at work!!!!! Grrrr!

Posted By Robert K Lewis
JPK

I would make a bet that these are not company cars as you or I know them. An esoteric tax efficient scheme will be behind them.

I do wish that these stupid requirements for signs were not created however. Who in their right mind is going to tell the chairman that his leased vehicle is no smoking? Just await the penalty notice and let HR sort it out.

Bob

Posted By JPK
Apparently form what I have read they must be the 'International No Smoking Sign' however I have yet to find out what colours are stipulated!?

I will assume however that you will be pulled for NOT 'clearly' displaying.

BTW: smokefreeengland.co.uk and their helpline have just provided the answers to my questions, in PART 3 of the Exemptions.

Thanks all

JPK