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#1 Posted : 19 June 2007 14:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Debbie Blay
Do I need to supply bottled water to an employee who will be driving as the main part of his job?
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#2 Posted : 19 June 2007 16:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By The toecap
No. Why? What if he doesn't want it?
Do you need to supply him with a toilet as well.
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#3 Posted : 19 June 2007 17:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By andrew morris
If its an issue, would suggest supplying him with a reuseable drinks container and ensuring that the sites he visits are able to provide access to mains water. If he drives for work then his vehicle is part of his workplace therefore you have to provide access (so far as is reas. practicable). Dehydration may be part of your driving for work risk assessment?
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#4 Posted : 20 June 2007 09:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tabs
Andrew is right, but don't forget the following in your RA too:

1. Due dilligence to ensure water provided is potable
2. Cleaning of water bottle
3. Storage of water bottle (temperature/sunlight)
4. Policy of use (i.e. not whilst actually driving)
5. Recommendation of how much to drink

Personally some of this sounds OTT but that's the kind of things I would expect to see having been considered at least...

Bottled water might be easier LOL
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#5 Posted : 20 June 2007 10:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gff
Vehicles are exempt from the workplace regs see Reg 3(3)(a)

The only regulation applicable is 13 See Rg 3(3)(b) which is duty to prevent falls from height and this is only applicable when the vehicle is stationary

I complete disagree with the advice given above

G'
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#6 Posted : 20 June 2007 10:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Berg
There is still a general duty to ensure welfare under the Act, seems reasonably practicable to ensure access to drinking water, maybe not issue it.
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#7 Posted : 20 June 2007 10:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gff
Intresting

Service stations!

Try and apply regs 8, 10, 20, 21, and 25 also.
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#8 Posted : 20 June 2007 10:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
GFF is quite correct there is exemption from providing drinking water is vehicles, however, you still need to ensure the welfare of your employees when at work. This can be done by ensuring they have access to clean drinking water. The cost of providing a supply of such water is not overly onerous and the cost is quite small when purchased in bulk. Alternately, where do your drivers work, I find it hard to think they drive all day, for what purpose? They must visit your locations sometime so why not make drinking water available there or if its not your premises build in refreshment breaks into thier routine and allow them to purchase drinking water and dispose (sensibly) of the empty container and reimberse the cost through expences or an allowance.
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#9 Posted : 20 June 2007 13:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Taylor14
hundreds of thousands of people are on the road daily, you do not need to supply water and as there is no significant risk I wouldnt even do a risk assessment. Is it also your responsibility to see the driver eats to ensure s/he doesnt faint?
This sort of thing gives H&S a bad name.
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#10 Posted : 20 June 2007 14:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gff
Excellent shout Peter

Sometimes i despair at interpretations and advice posted on this site even my own!

Think I'll stay away for a while...... again
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#11 Posted : 20 June 2007 14:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By andrew morris
Don't recall suggesting that the provision of water should be risk assessed. And I don't see how this gives H&S safety a bad name, we are having a professional debate... I thought...

Apologies for mentioning the workplace regs - my bad - it does appear to be exempt, but as the supporting post says - section 2 - so far as is rp. For the sake of bottled water or a reuseable bottle why would you not want to ensure the welfare of your staff?

Don't forget though, driving at work is an upcoming issue (particuarly as it kills more people at work than falls from height) and soooo - should you be encouraging people to "drink" and drive or maybe ensuring the route is planned to include suitable and sufficient rest stops..... (with access to water)

As a footnote I think it is more likely to be the brush off attitude which is more damaging to health and safety - this was a serious question with serious discussion - think healthier nations, heathier workplaces not just do the bare minimum... I would also suggest it is your responsibility to ensure that the driver is not too fatigued/stressed/pressured (so as not to eat for fear of missing deadlines) that they faint - not as the previous two have suggested.. (sounds a bit like the "they come to work accepting the risks" argument coming back
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#12 Posted : 20 June 2007 14:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gff
Here's a reminder

"Dehydration may be part of your driving for work risk assessment?"

Your way off the mark, you should not encourage people to drink when they are driving, it is distracting and supplying them with bottled water facilitates the doing it.

To me that is far fetched but hey ho though i would join in after all drving is an up and comming thing these days
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#13 Posted : 20 June 2007 14:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By MetalMan
"Do I need to supply bottled water to an employee who will be driving as the main part of his job?"

Yes, also ensure that you remind them to breathe in case of suffocation, blink to prevent visual disturbances, move steering wheel to avoid hitting other vehicles.

Good grief, driving in the Paris - Dakar rally good question, Luton to Knutsford???????????
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#14 Posted : 21 June 2007 15:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By andrew morris
Look, this is a welfare argument - just as toilets on construction sites - the welfare regs say provide toilets but give exemption to construction sites. HSE have since said HSW S2 welfare - provide them, no excuses. If you are a good company who care about your staff you will ensure that hey have access to the basic necessaities of life - including water. Otherwise, why would there be a requirement to proviede water in the welfare regs at all?

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#15 Posted : 21 June 2007 15:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Well siad Andrew, we are a professional body who take care of our people. Not many on the road though so the cost is minimal to us. We believe in looking after our people so we can keep them at work longer thus retaining thier not insignificant and very costly work efforts. Thats why we supply water, what I am saying is give then a bottle of water to take with them, it helps keep them on side you see, never in all the history of the company have we been taken to a tribunal, never had anyone resign in discust, or even complained to the union about thier working conditions. By the way we are a company about 200 strong with a lot of quite high profile operations going on. It's called looking after the welfare of our people as well as thier safety and health. It makes me think about who some of you work for to knock them off my retirement job list.
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#16 Posted : 21 June 2007 15:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gff
the welfare regs exempt construction sites because the construction regs regulate construction sites and the provision of welfare is clear there in, see schedule 6 of the CHSWR or schedule 2 of the CDM regs.

The last thing i want or need installed in my company car van or whatever is a toilet sink and a water fountain

Put it this way will you get a PN or IN for not providing water in a car ............ no because there is no because it is NOT a requirement in any of the regs

I can't believe I am actually posting this but there you go
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#17 Posted : 21 June 2007 15:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gff
bob the question was "do i need to......"

Answer No
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#18 Posted : 21 June 2007 15:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tabs
Here, here, Andrew.

To the rest of the "Oh my word" brigade, back off please, there are mundane issues in this world as well.

I mention assessment in my original reply because any process of sitting down and thinking about the whys and wherefore's is an assessment.

Anyone who has drivers and no driving for work risk assessment may be in breach of Reg3 requirement, Mr Taylor.

I could imagine the question has stemmed from a driver claiming his/her right to have bottled water. There have been a couple of sensible replies.

It only gets silly when people exaggerate and add questions not being asked - don't you think?
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#19 Posted : 21 June 2007 22:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By darren booth
it may seem unrelated, but schools(in my area anyway) now give kids water bottles, to bring to school, as they find that when kids have a drink, and are hydrated, they are fresh and attentive.
regardless of regs, it is just good practice to look after your staff, as bob shillabeers post demonstrates(it sounds like you work for a good employer, bob!).
the obvious course of action is to actually ask the drivers what they need! the way the original question was asked, it seems like it was looking for a way to avoid having to supply the drinks.

and Peter Taylor14? you must be a manager, because in my experience, they are the only people who can state that something has no risk without assessing it!
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#20 Posted : 22 June 2007 06:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Enlarging the discussion : I once had a few company cars that regularly went from France to Switzerland using roads that went up to 1 000 meters.

Each car had a box in the boot containing a bottle of water, chocolate, a shovel and a survival blanket. (in case of snow blocking the road) As I remember, none of them were ever used.

Nowadays the company rule is that you stop for a break every 100 miles or so. Have some water, have a coffee, have a walk around, have a pee. None of this will appear on expenses.

However. Most of the factories I visit do supply free cold water. Either in plastic cups out of the "coffee" machine, a "fountain" or in bottles (sometimes kept in a fridge)

Some (a very few) companies advise employees on healthy diets. (15 apples a day, 25 litres of water) (I exaggerate) and could thus be expected to facilitate employee access to apples and water.

Others don't give a damn and expect employees to be big enough to look after themselves.

To sum up a rather discursive reply, I would expect adults to take care of their own hydration. Except in exceptional circumstances.

Merv

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#21 Posted : 22 June 2007 08:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By The toecap
Whilst in the army we used to get eating and drinking cards. This was to ensure that we all et sufficient rest etc.
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#22 Posted : 22 June 2007 09:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By GARRY WIZZ
On reading this thread I did laugh. Honest.

I have drivers who rack a few miles, got a few going Lincs to newcastle and back to-day.

Have not and never will have a risk assessment for provision of water en route.

I feel confident that at some point they will stop and deal with all bodily requirements.

I am sure that in the fullness of time it will become a legal requirement but I hoped to be long gone by then, laid on a beach with a barcardi & coke full time.

Happy days, Garry

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#23 Posted : 22 June 2007 10:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Gff, I'm sure your right, you don't need to do it, but in the interest of improving the lot of your outbased personnel you can do it. Isn't that a way of improving your workforce at a smal cost? They will be happier.
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