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#1 Posted : 26 June 2007 23:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By martin gray1
Hi all
Employee works his shift gets home and then fails to return to work again saying he has hurt his back while at work. Failed to report anything to manager or supervisor or colleagues. Doctor has signed him off now for last 4 weeks and given him a further 8 weeks till he sees a specialist.

I have been told by other members of staff that there is nothing wrong with his back and he is fine? Company will not pay for an independent doctors report which is what I have suggested. I have informed the HSE of course and notified our insurance company of a possible claim coming our way. He had manual handling training and there is signed documentation in his H&S file, his duties were light.

Could I now do any more than just wait for the doctors report which he has consented to but as yet not arrived. Doctor says he needs his file and it has not arrived to him yet from eastern Europe.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks
MG
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#2 Posted : 27 June 2007 08:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian P
I would have thought a report from an occupational health therapist would have been in your company's interests and well worth the money in this case.
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#3 Posted : 27 June 2007 08:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By w.j. jones
Can depend on what your accident reporting procedures are....for example if you accept retrospective reporting, then you may accept that it happened at work, if you don't and the guy has not filled in an accident from, then what is to say it happened at work?
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#4 Posted : 27 June 2007 08:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh
I have worked for 2 blue chip companies with very low accident rates, and very rigid policies on managing accidents.

Simply put, the dictum was "not reported at work - didn't happen at work". Any accident had to go in the accident book the day it happened. Period.

In other words, I would probably not accept this as a works accident; I would not report to HSE. I do get the impression that you "smell a rat".

My advice is, if you do not believe it is work related, don't accept or report it.
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#5 Posted : 27 June 2007 08:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By GARRY WIZZ
Happened to me once, I drove to his house and made a start on the incident investigation.He was not to impressed but I said he had to comply with H&S law so it was a case of his house or my office for which we would ensure his medical safety to and from his home. Bull **** with a smile on my face and I came out of his house with my requirements complete ( took my driver in as witness )

garry
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#6 Posted : 27 June 2007 08:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Youel
Remembering that accident reporting is also subject to Social Security law [irrespective of other laws / individual company policies/ nor who publishes the BI510 etc] so genuine retrospective accident reporting is not illegal

When you suspect a rat you should do all you can to prepare for the possible repercussions and simply staying inside the parameters of a company policy may not help in a court

However you must be very careful as such preparation can be seen as making out that a person is not what they are and could lead to another type of claim against you

I would make preparations in-house [recording as you go]as against contacting the various agencies; especially the Social Security as they have different aims and objectives and could even tell the claimant of your preparations as has happened in the past re my personal experience
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#7 Posted : 27 June 2007 08:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merlin
Working in high risk environment on a large construction site last year, before I arrived they had 10 RIDDOR and over thirty reported accidents at work within a sort period of time, all these were found to have been reported within three days of the “alleged” accident

Revue the policy “none excitant” put in place all accident must be reported on day of accident, and any time lost must be accompanied by doctor’s note or self certification
Out come = lower the frequency rate by 70% , lowered absenteeism by 95%, over night
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#8 Posted : 27 June 2007 09:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sally
I would suggest that you fill in an F2508 but put on it that there is lack of clarity whether it occurred at work and don't count it in your statistics.

HSE are happy with this as I've used this route before
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#9 Posted : 27 June 2007 09:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sally
OK have just reread your original post and realised that I've answered a question you didn't actually ask!!

Sorry - it's too early in the morning
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#10 Posted : 27 June 2007 10:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By martin gray1
Many Thanks to all who have responded.
MG
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#11 Posted : 27 June 2007 10:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Russell Wilkinson
I have had a similar experience.I was working with a sub-contractor on site,when a loft ladder bracket came away and he had to jump off the last two steps.I asked him if he was hurt but he said he was ok,but I filed a near miss with my Health & Safety Manager,stating no injuries.After the work was completed a good five days later and the sub-contractor was no longer needed he then reported an injury.The Near Miss report came in handy as we were contacted by the dss,with an inquiry into the sub-contractors disability claim!!!!
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#12 Posted : 27 June 2007 23:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By martin gray1
Thanks Russell this has helped me add another angle to the letter I am sending him.
Regards
MG
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#13 Posted : 28 June 2007 08:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul L Williams
Maybe you should get in touch with a surveillance company, especially if you have reasonable grounds that there is nothing wrong with the employee and a claim may arise. Taking time off work with sick pay when there is nothing wrong(alleged)is fraud. When you have evidence to show there is nothing wrong with them call them back in work and tell them you believe they are lying, when they dispute this you can then put on the surveillance video showing things like them carrying bags of shopping and stooping to place it in the boot of their car. I have done this before, but usually after a claim has come in and I have strong evidence to suggest it is fraudulent. When the workforce know that the company take a zero tolerance attitude to fraudulent claims it help reduce the claims level also.

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#14 Posted : 28 June 2007 08:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rob T
Big problem and not as easy as some people are saying to sort out. The first thing you need to do is investigate the "accident" and make a judgement as to whether that may have caused the injury. Any witnesses (you know - I'm not trying to teach my granny to suck eggs here)?

The message about not reporting it at the time is a huge red herring and a half decent lawyer would drive a horse and cart through that. Muscle and bone injuries can have delayed reactions to trauma (it particularly happens to rugby players by the way and more often than not to front rows - often getting severe symptoms the next day).

You must also be careful if you put pen to paper stating that the GP is incompetent which is in effect what you are saying. Most of us know that GP's often aren't the best people to diagnose in these circumstances but actually stating that can lead to other actions.

I would definately ask your senior management to get a second opinion from an expert Dr in this type of injury (my old firm used a guy in Harley Street) as if it is shown that there may have been an "exaggeration" then the potential payout in a claim could be substantially reduced (far more than the cost of a specialist).

Have you asked the guy what job he did before? Does he play contact sports? Does he do a lot of DIY? etc. etc.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Rob
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#15 Posted : 28 June 2007 22:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By martin gray1
Thanks everyone
The wealth of experience on this forum and the different approaches to a situation certainly opens your eyes.

Many Thanks to all for your help.
MG
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#16 Posted : 29 June 2007 09:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andy Brazier
The assumption here seems to be that an accident must have occurred. However, a bad back is just as likely to be a health issue where identifying a single event as the cause may not be possible. Using stress as an analogy, it is sometimes possible to identify an event (post traumatic stress) but that is the minority of cases. In fact this bad back could actually be caused by stress.

The trouble is there is no simple solution to health problems. It is difficult to show that it is purely work related. If you think the claim is fraudulent, investigate it as such. But beware of saying it cannot be work related because an accident was not reported.
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