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#1 Posted : 04 July 2007 10:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By uisafe Simple issue: I am attending a course so called TTT-train the trainer, the Coach does not allowed us to drink water in the class room when course is ongoing, we have a 10min break every one hours, and at that time we go out of the classfroom to drink. It a nice classroom, practically, risks of driking water in farly beyond the ALARP line,no housekeeping issue. I have attended many trainins, it the first time I saw this. there are still 2 days left,If aybody has any good ideas,please give some help.
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#2 Posted : 04 July 2007 10:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman No. This is stupid. People need to drink when they need to drink. Some people are on diets or medication which require them to drink 100 cl every hour. Who is this quy and where is he coming from ? TTT ? a total control freak. Must be charging, like me, at least £1500 per hour. But I pay the coffee. Merv
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#3 Posted : 04 July 2007 10:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman Take your bottle in and dare him to physically take it away from you. Sorry if I seem to be going over the top here, but my TTT training said that if I (the trainer) needed some water or a fag break now and then then the same facility should be given to my trainees. which is why we have a 10 minute break every hour or so. Should I do the ugly camel joke now, or save it for Friday ? Merv
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#4 Posted : 04 July 2007 11:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Merv do it now! What an idiot this is certainly not the way to go! Take in water in one of those safety bottles so if it did fall over then no water spilt
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#5 Posted : 04 July 2007 11:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Dale While I can understand that some people require to drink water regularly I am at a loss to accept the recent requirement for people to sip water every few minutes. This is often accompanied by unscrewing the cap, sucking some water followed by a gurgling sound as the pressure is equalised and then the cap is replaced. I can understand that this could be a distraction during a lecture. Is this really necessary or is it just a modern habit?
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#6 Posted : 04 July 2007 12:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Amanda I agree with Merv on this. If the water is contained in a sports type bottle what is the problem? Merv is right, as a trainer we must be aware of the needs of the students to ensure there is inclusion and a good learning environment. What about mints?? have they been banned too?? or is it just water?
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#7 Posted : 04 July 2007 13:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By GARRY WIZZ The drinking of water during a training lesson has nothing to do with Health & Safety. The instructor when teaching should ensure that as far as possible there are NO distractions during the lesson. I would expect the average person to last 1 hour without the need to drink, eat, etc. For myself I make a lesson last no more than 45mins. The reason behind this is that the average person will start to struggle with information assimilation, retention once you start going over 45mins. I have attended training lessons that have people that are up to this and that during teaching phase and for myself it is a distraction. If I am teaching I expect the instruction to have captivated the students hence they would not be thinking about the next drink or fag. If they seem distracted its time for me to review my teaching of the lesson / look for external factors. Just to add, I am not that impressed when an instructor frequently breaks the flow of a lesson by having a drink break. So based on the info available I would not consider the instructor to be acting unreasonable.... Garry
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#8 Posted : 04 July 2007 13:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Bit critical there Gary me old fruit, I think that this hard line may be acceptable but it always depends on your target audience. You telling me you have a load of senior management doing a course and they cant sit down and have tea and tiffin and listen to you present your stuff, like wise on a hot day in a crappy training room with no aircon etc etc. Are we to assume that at training venues / hotels / conference centres with sweets and posh water you are going to confiscate them / not allow the delegates to utilise them, I really do think this is not acceptable.
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#9 Posted : 04 July 2007 14:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By GARRY WIZZ Yo, point taken, maybe I am a bit OTT. I have been at the job for over 20 years, and a trainee is a trainee so I make no exception for status. I have never had a problem over water and such like but maybe its a 2007 thing. I must admit I am passionate about training and am a complete perfectionist (anorak) when putting my lessons to-gether. I put some lads on the TTT course and booked myself on so that I would have a clear picture of what to expect from my trainers. Came back and spent 3 days teaching them how to teach correctly. I did this because bad training is not only worthless, it does not achieve its aim, some one gets hurt. OPS, got carried away there folks. Garry
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#10 Posted : 04 July 2007 14:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tabs "I am at a loss to accept the recent requirement for people to sip water every few minutes" and "The drinking of water during a training lesson has nothing to do with Health & Safety." Well I suggest neither of you have had certain medications that I have been on for the past few years which give a drying of the throat and then a tickly cough. I promise you, my coughing is far more disruptive than my sipping water. Discontinuing the medication so I can attend your class certainly is a health issue. People get dry throats for many reasons, and that kind of discomfort will be distracting to their ability to learn. I think trainers should remember that they are part of a service provision and that a tiny issue like sipping water (from a cup if you don't want the bottle gurgle) should not be able to distract you or others from the issues. Sounds like unnecessary control to me.
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#11 Posted : 04 July 2007 14:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By GARRY WIZZ A pp to my note, I then applied audits to our training lessons so that a year down the road I felt comfortable that the lessons were still being done correctly. At all our other depots no one ever checked that the trainer was teaching correctly. OK, thats it, back to earth and shut up. Garry
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#12 Posted : 04 July 2007 14:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By GARRY WIZZ Obviously if there is a medical condition then it must be accomadated in or out the classroom, my comments refer to average jo. No probs Garry
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#13 Posted : 04 July 2007 14:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Dale Tabs The first line of my response read, "While I can understand that some people require to drink water regularly I am at a loss to accept the recent requirement for people to sip water every few minutes." My point was that this appears for many people to be a modern affectation.
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#14 Posted : 04 July 2007 14:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gilly Margrave Apparently schools are now encouraging access to drinking water in the classroom partly on children's health grounds and partly because it improves concentration. http://www.learning.wale...k/pdfs/think-water-e.pdf As to what has changed: Central heating: overheated dry air. Gilly Merv - can we have the ugly camel joke now please?
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#15 Posted : 04 July 2007 16:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tabs Ian, I thought you were making a distinction between "regularly" (every 45 mins?) and "every few minutes". I cannot reliably go 45 mins without a drink or sucking a sweet ... and it is a pain in the wotsit, trust me. Sorry if I misunderstood :-) As a modern affectation though, why shouldn't people be allowed it anyway? We are not at school, we are adults, and I have a cup of tea / coffee / water at my side all day when working at my desk. And when watching tv at home. Even during a visit to the cinema (I don't miss the Kia-Ora moments though). Is a training session some mystical high ranking event? Sadly, not - in my experience.
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#16 Posted : 04 July 2007 17:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By uisafe Victim Luan comes back for trying more: Thanks for your comments first. - I can not tell the detail about the trainer rather than convience him tomorrow based on your comments, because this may carry side affects on his Comapany and himself as well. so help first rather than destroy. - I have a good habit - drinking water with good frequently because of body needs. like some of others, I am always doing so in the meeting, office, class room etc, but never before DCS or stuff like that., I have attended many trainings, we are free to take water or even go to toilet during training ongoing, it is the first time to meet this uncomforable issue, It is the 4th time during the 12 years for the TTT by different suppliers, but first time in my life for this drinking water problem. it is not a risk issue, I have some complains, but no feed back from the trainer. - during the 10min break, people around one table sized abt 60cm*120cm, 2 water bottles, one coffee bottle,(about 30 trainees) some cokies and fruits as well for free, not charged by the trainer, the facilities do not work very well because not spaciouse enough, some people will somke + drink + toilet(may take longer time if not [expletive deleted]ing type), the break can not make you relax enough. - good aircon in the room, but outside is more or less 30 degress. - especially for adault training, shall not like that. creating a humanity training enviroment does not affect the delivery of the training, even can make it training better. so tomorrow, base on the your comments and my decisions, for the benifits of others and myself, I will speak to him again and bring water cup in, or take a water bottle with me as your guys suggested. I will share more as necessary with you later. If possible, I will take some pictures as well. Have a nice day!
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#17 Posted : 05 July 2007 00:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter A modern affectation, yes - and these "sookie" (Scots.) bottles really annoy me. Not that long ago though, more than half the class would have smoked during the presentation?
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#18 Posted : 05 July 2007 01:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By uisafe Hunter, Paper cups only at monment. just for myself, I will take a bottle of mineral water, no noise except you doing that on purpose. these water bottles are also very very commenly put in the meeting room or class room sometimes. smoke only at break & out the class. let's see if I can take some photos today for better understanding. poor luan will develop a brief topic for training presentation exercise based on the above materials... :)
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#19 Posted : 05 July 2007 12:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman I want my trainees to be comfortable and in a listening/participative mode. Sometimes I work in hotels or training rooms where they automatically put out water, orange juice, coffee, biscuits, sweets and so on. Last week the kitchen staff brought in fresh coffee on the hour, every hour. People get up, help themselves and I have never found it to be a distraction. For me or the trainees. Same thing at the management wrap-up. The CEO came in with a pot of coffee and everyone got a cup to start with then refilled as needed. How/why would I stop them doing that ? Next theme : drinking a litre and a half of water a day. Why ? I've never found a scientific justification for why a healthy person under normal (ie british) conditions should need that much liquid. (8 pints on saturday night is something else)(4.54 litres for those who want the conversion) Many, many years ago (diddlythree ?) I had a couple of kidney stones and was recommended to drink 2 pints of liquid a day. (which partly explains the current off-licence bill) but that was for a specific medical condition. On another part of this thread : audits. Most of the firms I work for ask the trainer to pass out an evaluation sheet at the end of the day. Pinch-of-salt time. Especially when one person says "boring and slow" and another says "fast paced and dynamic" (same session) Then you go through the evaluations with the training manager and she says "Oh, him. he's a great moaner" I only do it 'cause the money is good. That's it. Wimbledon has started Merv Camel joke (not much of one actually) coming up tomorrow.
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#20 Posted : 06 July 2007 05:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By uisafe After talked with Trainer and show him the 4 pages printed material your guys gave, he agreed to take water into the classroom. All the attendees are very happy with that. Lesson learned: It is a better way to conduct training based on the humanity and people's demands,think about attitude. Training rules like ball, not very ball is good ball.
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#21 Posted : 06 July 2007 09:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By GARRY WIZZ A curious outcome if one accepts that the consensus is that everyone should have full time access to water at any given time and that deprivation for 45mins is not humane. Driving could be a bit ify Footballers carrying bottles during the game Checkout person pausing for a cuppa Riding a bike... Serve , Volley , sip , Finding your bottle in the swimming pool Forklifts fitted with drink stations Part of every risk assessment I jest and provoke a little, each to their own. friday is the start of the weekend, Garry
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