Posted By Jennifer Kelly I am seeking the opinion of other forum members as I am finding myself in the position of being called a killjoy health & safety person (in polite terms) due to the initial stance I am taking over the activity of quad biking. Background to issue: 3 members of staff take a group of 15+ year olds (yes you did read right, we are a children's charity) to a centre which runs quad biking as an activity. One member of staff looses control of bike, is thrown over handle bars and breaks a bone in hand. Accident is reported to me and I in turn report it to RIDDOR. I then go through the paperwork on this activity, Risk Assessment has been done and checked by line manager to the team as per organisation procedure. Insurance department contacted to see if policy covers this type of activity and much to my surprise it does, my own personal holiday insurance by contrast does not. No one contacts me to check if Quad biking is a suitable Staff and Young Person activity, basically because the Line Manager was ok with it all. Having a Line Manager authorise and ok the Risk Assessment is in itself not a problem and most of our Line Managers are very good at reviewing Risk Assessments, added to that I do not have the resources to review all Risk Assessments done by the organisation, but in this case there is a problem of perception. The Line Manager in question does not perceive Quad biking to be a dangerous activity - I disagree. Hence the killjoy accusation. I have to be honest and admit I have never done quad biking, but I have read a number of stories involving serious accidents with Quad bikes. I do not want to ban activities that have a element of risk to them as long as that risk is managed and I just do not think that is possible to reasonably manage the risks relating to Quad biking. So what do members of the forum think, Quad biking - dangerous and to be avoided? Or no worse than abseiling which is also done by the organisation as an activity for staff and Young People? All thoughts and comments very welcome, Jennifer

Posted By Alan Nicholls Hi Jennifer From your posting it would appear that all of the hard work has been done RA Insurance etc and even a review of the RA by a line manager. A well organised group activity.(Or did I miss something) Outward bound activities prepare our children and young adults for the big wide wicked world. So what if they quad bike or abseil down a cliff face, white water rafting,etc. I wish I had the chance! Just look at the broader picture, open mind and all that. Better still have a go yourself! Regards Alan N

Posted By G M I would suggest that it is a potentially high risk activity that could be well controlled. Suitable equipment, supervision, training, planning & protective equipment would all reduce the risks. If well managed it would seam to me that the benefit (in terms of enjoyment) out way the risk from the activity. There are serious risks associated with traveling on the roads in the UK so it has to be considered in context.

Posted By Ian P Hi Jennifer I also work for a childrens charity and we are involved in taking young people, many younger than 15, on excursions involving activities such as quad biking, horse riding, skiing etc. I have only rarely put a stop to them and then usually only because the of the activity supplier not being able to supply risk assessments or proof of public liability. Our insurers will cover most events, although they are not keen on anything involving water and will not have anything to do with fireworks or bouncy castles. All they want is prior notification and risk assessments for anything with a "thrill element". I have always agreed with the HSE's attitude that these sort of activities are part of a child's development just as long as they have been risk assessed properly, adequate control measures are in place for obvious hazards and the insurers agree to cover the activity.

Posted By Rob T Hi People, This thread has actually has actually reaffirmed my faith in the safety professionals who post on this site. I must say that I was becoming severely disillusioned with some of the responses to questions on this forum. I am totally against the risk-averse sections of the insurance and safety professions and have always advocated an escalating level of control where the more risky tasks are involved. I am also against most types of total ban. We are not here to take the easy option which is in many cases, to just stop something. I think we are here to ensure that business or pleasure can still be carried out but with safeguards. The answers posted above, from experienced practitioners, all show pragmatism and a genuine feeling that we should not overcompensate for just any perceived risk. This has just started me off in a really good mood for the day. Many thanks to you all.

Posted By Lilian McCartney I agree with all of the above and would inlcude acitivtes not just for children but adults as well. I like to think (and hopefully practice this) that H&S IS NOT saying no but is saying YES with... I wouldn't have experienced half things I have if we worried too much. No matter what you do there is always a chance something will happen. Anecdotely, I broke my finger at Sunday School picnic as an adult and whilst at the hospital at nurse said that most childrens picnics the accidents are more commonly to the adults as they run about more than what they would normally do! Reviewing the risk assessment as you have done is correct and if everything is okay( and it soaunds like it) then let the acitvity go on. I don't know how long you've been in H&S but I foudn when I was new that I used to get really concerned and worried about things but have managed to relax and not think 'dread'. Another thing I should say is, and this will depend on your post and responsibilities, as a H&S Adviser. I advise the 'Managers' and give options with plus and minuses for each and what I would recommend but they make the decisions. This will obviously depend on your own organsiations structure though. Hope we've all helped. Take care Lilian