Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By PAUL U
Reading the thread Accident to Visitor prompts me to write this.
If a driver or passenger is injured on site, this must be reported under Riddor, once the vehicle leaves the site, the same driver or passenger injuring themselves is not reportable (or so I understand) under Riddor as the vehicle is not deemed to be a workplace.
However under Smokefree regulations that same vehicle is a workplace.
Is it not time that all vehicle related incidents became reportable under Riddor to enable true correlation of statistics?
It is incomprehensible that a driver and passenger losing a limb is not reportable simply because it happened on a public highway.
paul
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Dave Wilson
Thats because the RT Act applies, employers can still be done for incidents on the highway how it is enforced is the issue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Gff
A vehicle is a workplace when it is stationary, Look at the Workplace Regs at some point a vehicle will need to stop? and should be smoke free?
The smoke free legislation describes it as smoke free VEHICLES if they are used:
to transport members of the public or
in the course of paid or voluntary work by more than one person - regardless of whether they are in the vehicle at the same time.
hence the title The Smoke-free (Vehicle Operators and Penalty Notices) Regulations 2007
If a driver is injured in an RTI in comes under the road traffic act
What other sort of injuries are you talking about when driving that
Don't get your point!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Peter Leese
The point is that work related traffic accident are not included in the work related fatality or injury figures. This anomaly is known to the HSE (I understand our figures are not directly comparable to many other countries because of it) and that research is ongoing to try to resolve the issue.
Good point Paul.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By PAUL U
Thank you Peter you understood my point perfectly.
I truly believe that ALL injuries sustained by drivers and passengers should be encompassed by the Riddor regulations.
For the crew of a vehicle, that vehicle is their workplace, moving or not and injuries sustained whilst carrying out their duties in/on that vehicle could have a big impact on work related injury statistics. For me, the sooner this loophole is closed the better.
paul
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Ken Taylor
Wasn't the reason that they wanted information about accidents due to work rather than road traffic accidents - which are enforced and recorded by others?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Gff
I Don't get the point about smoke free legislation making vehicles a workplace!
Also where would you draw the line with injuries/fatalities in RTI's. When would you be travelling to work or from work would you be in the workplace anytime you are in a vehicle supplied by the company......
The RIDDOR regs are poorly interpreted by, us professionals, already would this not confuse, us professionals, even more......
Look at some of the riddor threads before and you'll see what I mean
The workplace regs would need to change to include vehicles when they are moving but then this is covered by the road traffic act because drivers have to obey that legislation when they drive.
It does make sense to have them under RIDDOR, employers have a lot of influence over this element of working activity and can still be hauled if they don't manage it properly regardless of how much the RTA places the liability on the driver
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Jay Joshi
The vehicles smokefree legislation is about vehicles used for work activities, where the employer either provides the vehicle or compensates its use. Although the intentions were good, it is an extremely badly worded piece of legislation, especially in context of absance of clarification of "primarily for privete use". It is this type of text of legislation that requires scrutiny from the House of Lords, unlike the pinp pong over the Corporate manslaughter & homicide bill!
I do not agree that employers can be made responsible over situations where they has no control, i.e of the traffic and roads in general.
As such, driving for work is covered by the management regulations, i.e. risk assessments, driver training etc. The workplace regs are for "premises" where employers have control.
Once a driver is out of the employers premises, as long as requirements I have listed ( there are several more!)are met, the onus should also be on the driver, not only on the employer.
What we need is sensible risk management,and the enforcement of the management regulations, not more legislation!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Gff
Jay
I agree an employer should not be made responsible for things out with their control, and generally they aren't. another can pulling out in front of a working driver is not the employers fault.
However, they can influence causing driver fatigue, speeding, using phones when driving. You can argue that the employee has to take responsibility as a driver, in reality it's do or loose your job
.........look at this link
http://www.norwichunion.com/roadsense/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By peter gotch
Paul
During the consultation stage prior to RIDDOR1995, one of the issues was whether work related RTAs should be reportable.
Some argued that since RTAs are counted elsewhere it would be excessive burden to make the work related ones reportable.
This means that we still haven't got anything like an accurate understanding of the proportion of RTAs that are work related.
HSE estimate about 10%
RoSPA estimate about 25%
Devon and Cornwall Police estimate about 40% in their territory.
An accident in acar which is NOT an RTA is reportable under RIDDOR if it meets the various criteria.
Vehicle is "premises" within the meaning of Section 53 of HSWA 1974.
Regards, Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By LJ
Paul U,
In answer to your question, try this link- http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg382.pdf an extract from this is;
'YOUR LEGAL RESPONSIBILITIES
The Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 requires you to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health and safety of all employees while at work. You also have a responsibility to ensure that others are not put at risk by your work-related driving activities. (Self-employed people have a similar responsibility to that of employers.)
Under the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999 you have a responsibility to manage health and safety effectively. You need to carry out an assessment of the risks to the health and safety of your employees, while they are at work, and to other people who may be affected by their work activities.'
Source HSE
Your health and safety policy should include work related driving activities, typical it will include these: management duties, journey organisation, driver training and vehicle maintenance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.