Posted By montrey I have been asked to find out about hearing tests for employees. I understand that there are a few options 1. mobile units (with a sound proof booth on board) that turn up at your Company 2. nurses who come on site and do the tests in "a quiet room" on your premises 3. send the employees off to the local Doctor's surgery for testing I am not keen on option 3 for a variety of reasons so will rule it out immediately My questions are :- Which do you personally recommend and why? Which do YOU use (mobile unit or "quiet room")? What is the implication of not using a sound proof booth and doing the tests in a "quiet room"? Any recommendations of Companies that you have used in the past would be gratefully received (prices would be great as well!!) I look forward to any help that you can give me

Posted By montrey Thanks for the reply but that doesn't answer the question. What is the implication of not using a sound proof booth and doing the test in a quiet room? I have been told that there is legislation in place that states that it is necessary to use a sound proof booth. Also, who is overseeing the person doing the hearing tests at your Company? Did the person who went on the course have a medical background? I understand that the hearing tests have to be overseen by either an Occ. health doctor or an audiologist. I am even more confused now

Posted By Dave Adams CMIOSH References to EN 26189 in appendix 5 of the guidance to the noise at work 2005 regulations (L108). "EN 26189 gives criteria which should be met in test rooms to prevent test tones being masked by ambient sound levels and to allow measurement of hearing thresholds down to 0 dB. The quietest listening conditions are required at test frequencies of 1 kHz and below. It is usually necessary to use an audiometric soundproof booth to achieve acceptable listening conditions. A small number of people find these claustrophobic and need to be tested outside the booth. Although noise-excluding headsets have been recommended as an alternative method to reducing the effects of ambient noise, variations in fit mean that it is not possible to be certain of the attenuation achieved. This should be considered when comparing results using this strategy." Interesting, not read that far through it before. How many workplaces are going to be to that standard?

Posted By Kevin Allison As stated previously very few companies will be able to provide the noise booths required to ensure ambient noise is reduced. The course I mentioned in my previous response is a recommended course for Industrial Audiometricians, as required by the Control of Noise at Work Regulations 2005, and the recommendations from the course is that the ambient noise, in general, should not exceed 35dB(A). If you can provide a quite room that is below this level then you are meeting the requirements. I have recently visited a Occ Health practice to have a hearing test and to be quite honest, it was a farce, non of the equipment worked properly, the leads were all twisted and damaged and I nearly lost my hearing due to a large bolt of feedback noise. I honestly think you would be better carrying out the tests internally, this way you can ensure that the testing is carried out as per the performance requirements.

Posted By montrey I have just taken advice on this and have been reliably told that "it is necessary to do the tests in a sound proof booth" and not in a quiet room. A previous contributor quoted the correct information from the Control Of Noise at Works Regs. Also, I was told that the hearing tests MUST be overseen by an Occupational Health Physician or Audiologist. Where will this leave you if you have a claim against you if the tests are not being overseen by an Occ. Health Physician and carried out in a "quiet room" ?

Posted By montrey The person I checked with is an HSE Inspector. I also spoke someone from EMAS (Employment Medical Advisory Service) which is part of the HSE This is why I am confused.

Posted By montrey Kevin I am grateful for your advice - I have copied the advice that I have been sent by the HSE Appendix 5 - of the Regulations mentions the Test Environment and advice is given re the use of sound proof booths ie that it is necessary to have one. Part 6 - gives advice on Health survillance and para 316 gives advice on the suitability a person appointed IN CHARGE of the testing programme. Advice is given on the type of person suitable to do this. It mentions that this can be an audiological scientist or trained audiomectrician with access to a qualified occupational health professional. The HSE leaflet Noise at work INDG 362 (rev) also states that The hearing checks need to be carried out by someone who has the appropriate training. BUT the whole health surveillance programme needs to be under the control of an occupational health professional (for example a doctor or a nurse with appropriate training and experience). So it seems that a sound proof booth is necessary and that it has to be overseen by an Occ Health Physician - at least that is what the HSE are telling me

Posted By montrey Kevin thanks once again I find it very difficult to understand why a Doctor from EMAS and a Senior Inspector whose expertise is noise both give me the same incorrect advice. However, given that 35dB is classed as a quiet room - where do you find one in your Company and how do you make sure that it remains under 35db - telephones, conversation, people walking around, traffic noise, air conditioning, fax machines etc etc. I have just found this guide on the net Extremely loud: 110 dB = rock music, model airplane 106 dB = timpani and bass drum rolls 100 dB = snowmobile, chain saw, pneumatic drill 90 dB = lawnmower, shop tools, truck traffic, subway Very loud: 80 dB = alarm clock, busy street 70 dB = busy traffic, vacuum cleaner 60 dB = conversation, dishwasher Moderate: 50 dB = moderate rainfall 40 dB = quiet room Faint: 30 dB = whisper, quiet library A quiet room (as far as they are concerned) is 40db which is almost twice as noisy as 35db. 30db is a whisper or a library !!! Are you telling me that your room could be classed as a library (or a whispered voice)whilst the hearing tests are being carried out? Do other people have rooms that are this quiet or is it just my Company where the noise levels will definately exceed 35dB on a regular basis? I think that I am going to get a Company in who can carry out the testing in a sound proof booth - unless I can be convinced otherwise

Posted By montrey So what you are saying is – that it is not advisable to have hearing tests done in a quiet room if we work in “heavy” industry AND if we have young employees (or anyone else, for that matter, who could detect an interruption above 35dB(A)) otherwise you could get inaccurate results, In addition, (if want the tests carried out in a quiet room)we must ask the employees in surrounding rooms to be quiet whilst the tests are being carried out and that we should also ask everyone to unplug the phones, stop photocopying and turn off the air conditioning! I can just imagine what my boss would say if I told him that I was going to have the phones unplugged until 80+ people were tested ! It would take days, and asking people to be quiet is equally unfeasible. Perhaps this is why “a sound proof booth is necessary” after all. I have done some more research over the last few days and found the following information www.ioshmanchester.co.uk...e%20at%20Work%20Regs.pps - This was a lecture given on behalf of IOSH by Dr. David Smeatham who is a Noise and Vibration Specialist Inspector. On his presentation slides (slide 19) it clearly shows someone sitting (presumably) behind the glass of a sound proof booth - not in an open office. Another slide has the following statement “the health surveillance needs to be under the control of an occupational health professional” So the people doing the tests must be overseen by a doctor or similar. I reiterate that this has been taken from an IOSH presentation by a HSE Inspector who specialises in Noise and Vibration !! This has been a very interesting “thread” and I have had a number of private emails recommending various Companies who provide the tests. Some have mobile vehicles with a sound proof booth others do the tests in a quiet room. Do others have views on this matter as it seems that we might be providing our employees with hearing tests that are inaccurate? Where would it leave us legally if we did the tests in room that exceeded 35dB (phones, photocopying, people talking etc)and without being overseen by a medical professional? So what you are saying is – that it is not advisable to have hearing tests done in a quiet room if we work in “heavy” industry AND if we have young employees (or anyone else, for that matter, who could detect an interruption above 35dB(A)) otherwise you could get inaccurate results, In addition, (if want the tests carried out in a quiet room)we must ask the employees in surrounding rooms to be quiet whilst the tests are being carried out and that we should also ask everyone to unplug the phones, stop photocopying and turn off the air conditioning! I can just imagine what my boss would say if I told him that I was going to have the phones unplugged until 80+ people were tested ! It would take days, and asking people to be quiet is equally unfeasible. Perhaps this is why “a sound proof booth is necessary” after all. I have done some more research over the last few days and found the following information www.ioshmanchester.co.uk...e%20at%20Work%20Regs.pps - This was a lecture given on behalf of IOSH by Dr. David Smeatham who is a Noise and Vibration Specialist Inspector. On his presentation slides (slide 19) it clearly shows someone sitting (presumably) behind the glass of a sound proof booth - not in an open office. Another slide has the following statement “the health surveillance needs to be under the control of an occupational health professional” So the people doing the tests must be overseen by a doctor or similar. I reiterate that this has been taken from an IOSH presentation by a HSE Inspector who specialises in Noise and Vibration !! This has been a very interesting “thread” and I have had a number of private emails recommending various Companies who provide the tests. Some have mobile vehicles with a sound proof booth others do the tests in a quiet room. Do others have views on this matter as it seems that we might be providing our employees with hearing tests that are inaccurate? Where would it leave us legally if we did the tests in room that exceeded 35dB (phones, photocopying, people talking etc)and without being overseen by a medical professional? Notification: If you would like to be notified by e-mail when someone responds to this

Posted By Robert Rendell Whilst a soundproof booth may often be the best solution to securing a suitable test environment for audiometry, it is not always necessary - depending on the particular venue. Tests undertaken outside a soundproof booth would be perfectly valid as long as the ambient noise levels are low enough. The regulations and guidelines of the HSE and the British Society of Audiology do not actually require a soundproof booth.

Posted By Miriam Stone I have been asking myself all the same questions as this! It seems your 'option 1' is the best bet - to get someone in. It covers all the bases and, assuming you get an accredited company, you can be pretty sure they are compliant. The NHCA (National Hearing Conservation Association) (American, I know)produce a leaflet which you can download called 'Mobile Hearing Testing Stations and Selecting a Provider'. Can you post any of the providers which have been sent to you? I could do with the same information as I need to get this ball rolling too.

Posted By pete parker Just been speaking to a colleague in the same industry as me and thought of you Montrey. He had hearing tests done by a Company who said it was okay to use a quiet room. The nurse brought a tin box and asked the person to stick their head in the tin box to do the test. Needless to say the whole exercise was a complete waste of time and money. Needless to say the company will not be asked back next year. I have passed the name of the Company we now use onto him - they come in a mobile vehicle and use a sound proof booth. Much more sensible as far as I am concerned. A question though - whose responsibility is it to ensure that the tests are done correctly?

Posted By pete parker Good point Miriam Is there anyone from the HSE or IOSH who would like to comment? As far as I am concerned hearing tests in a "quiet office" are a non starter

Posted By pete parker Another good point. Just imagine what the noise levels would have been like in a "quiet room". Luckily, the company made a positive move by siting the unit away from the FLT noise.

Posted By Miriam Stone It is good to hear that such professionals exist. Maybe you could tell us why there is so much confusion and why the 'professionals' haven't come up with a set of standards which we can follow, or an accreditation system so we don't end up with our heads in a tin box telling some person whether we can hear the beep (which could be a passing fork lift)...? I know you are only one person but you did state your credentials and you have to take the consequences!!

Posted By Sarah Haskins I have read the above postings and realise the booth v the quiet room may continue for a while. I would just like to mention that industrial audiometry is a screening process and not diagnostic, therefore any problems found (HSE classifications) when evaluating an audiogram would need referral to a GP or ENT professional. While not advocating bad practice in any shape or form I do feel that a screening process is better than no screening at all.

Posted By pete parker oooops a distinct sound of a cage being being rattled. Seems to be that you are trying to justify sending someone on a course rather than getting the professionals in. You also mention cost benefits... We got the professionals in - they use a sound proof booth, have an audiologist who oversees everything and they charge less than £18 per person all in. I personally don't think that is an excessive charge for peace of mind. If you want their name.....