Posted By Stuart James Gornall
Good evening colleagues


Here we go

If this is correct it is scandalous

See link


http://www.dailymail.co....d=470581&in_page_id=1770

Discuss

Posted By Barrie Roberts
I agree entirely with your comments Paul, I am an ex-serviceman.

Surely, any county authority could find it in their budget (and hearts) to provide the paltry sum required for stewarding on a day which means so much, to now so few, especially the slice of the rates they coin in.

I have known our local Cadet forces to participate in stewarding for local services, and relished in the privilege.

I would welcome retaliation on this one by the HSE halting the customary Mayors parade or other council march, and have all local town bands now been risk assessed?

More chance here of a risk of slipping or tripping!

Our Veterans, serving and non serving serviceman take their Parade and March with pride and dignity, well planned in military fashion, and all in step, unlike the above.

So where's the risk here?

My heart goes out to those 'who we owe'

Posted By grumpy
As has been said before this is not H&S stopping this event - it is cost!!!!! The same principle occurrs in the workplace , h&s people want to make the place "safer" not stop the job but senior management will not invest any money.
If another child is killed during the event (which is reasonbably foreseeable becuase it has happened) without the additional safety measures what would be said to the family. All this is newpaper hype..... pointed at H&S .... make the council pay for the additional safety measuers instead of paying the councillors expences for next weeks lunches etc - that will meet the cost with money over I would think !!!!

Posted By steven bentham
We should hang our heads in shame; as a Charity cannot IOSH HQ make a donation to fix.

Posted By Bill Collins
'why should the council pay it (or more to the point the tax payer) there are numerous more thinks that should be funded prior to this such as social services, help for the homeless, etc, etc.

... because, perhaps, it's the local cummunity's celebration of the debt we all owe the young men who've died defending all our rights to make idiotic comments like that.. obviously. The council should pay, end of.

Posted By Geoff Ferneyhough
Matt, well said I agree with your view.

Also lets not forget the Remembrance Day parade remembers all who gave their life in conflict up to the present day not just the two world wars.

Posted By Heather Collins
Apparently GMP have already offered an alternative route which would not involve so much expense.

As so often the problem is caused by:

a) Some selfish idiot who can't obey simple rules (the driver who "drove round the barrier")

b) The fear of claims. Of course there's no such thing as a compensation culture because the Governement has told us there isn't.

Elf'n'safety gets the hit as usual. I've already defended the profession on at least one other forum where we were getting a right "jobsworth" slagging.

Annoying isn't it?

Posted By Darren J Fraser
Well said Matt

If my local Rememberence Parade was under threat, I would be the 1st to offer my services as a steward or any other help I could give free of charge.

Then I would be straight onto the council, asking them to justify their position to someone who pays all the charges inposed, and is of voting age.

This would be followed by a trip to the local MP office asking them to explain how they are going ensure that the parade takes place and win my vote.

Followed by a trip to the other local polictical parties.

Cost so far - my time for an extremely important event.

Without the sacrifice of all those persons around the world, I along with everyone would likely to be leading a different existance.

Posted By anon1234
To Rob T, you seem to assume I haven't fought in a war. A number of good friends of mine died in the Falklands, fortunately I did not. What I'm saying is that there is no reason for the council to pay for this - there are other more directly useful causes for those funds and suitable commemorations can and do take place without having to follow the approach suggested.

Posted By Ray Hurst
As President Elect of IOSH, I feel I have to respond to some of the comments made in this thread.

Lisa has made a well timed and appropriate open response to the unjustified tirade being made against our profession, and I agree entirely with her response – this story about the Remembrance Day parade has nothing to do with health and safety.

I have to take issue with one of the comments made by Paul, although clearly there were no Highways officials on the Normandy Beaches on 6 June “requesting payment before they could land” there were highways officials on the beaches as part of the Allied Expeditionary Force. I work for a large County Council and every time I enter County Hall I pass a brass plaque containing the names (and departments) of employees of the Council who made the supreme sacrifice – two of those names are Highways Department officials.

For my sins I am also a member of the Royal British Legion and an active member of my local branch, as part of that role I have the pleasure and privilege to be part of the Remembrance parade organising committee. Last year we had a minor taster of this issue with a letter from the District Council announcing road closure charges would apply.

Further discussion soon cleared up the matter and although councils can (and usually do) charge for road closures they have discretionary powers not to make a charge for temporary road closures that cover, for example, commemorative occasions. They can also waive the costs of advertising the necessary road closures, as they did with us last year. My own view is that the letter about charges was sent out by someone new to the role who probably wasn’t aware of the last 75 + years of custom and practice.

Also it can be debatable as to what actually constitutes a road closure. As a branch we are fortunate that our war memorial is inside a local park, therefore the route we use isn’t “closed” - traffic can still flow along it but local police officers, community support officers and special constables act as a rolling traffic block controlling. They also stop (very temporarily) traffic on roads that feed into the parade route until we have passed. Technically I don’t think that constitutes a road closure (but others out there may well know different).

Clearly each branch of the RBL will have its own circumstances and some council’s may well need to shut the roads surrounding their parade route but most don’t actually make any charge for local Remembrance Day parades (I haven’t heard of any that have yet anyway –unless you know different.) Let’s not forget that many Council elected members, MPs and Local Government officers attend their local Remembrance Day parade and some are also ex-services personnel.

So in the light of not wanting the health and safety profession to be tarred with the same brush and depicted as the ‘elf and safety Gestapo (as often portrayed by some in the media) let us not do the same to those working in local government and brand them all as mindless money grabbing bureaucrats (at least not without a lot more evidence).

I am sure in my own mind that in Horwich, as in my own home town last year, common sense will eventually prevail and their parade will go on unhindered and without charge as it has for the last 60 years.


Ray Hurst
IOSH President Elect