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#1 Posted : 27 July 2007 09:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alang
Thank you in advance if anyone can help

We have secured a contract to service air conditioning units within a mosque. We have been told that we are not able to wear safety boots and only flip-flops would be acceptable.
Coul anyone please advise what regulations/alternatives etc exist and if anyone has any experience of working within a mosque.

There may well be other issues which I am not yet aware of.
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#2 Posted : 27 July 2007 10:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Youel

an individuals safety is paramount and does override [irrespective of what some may say] other general issues. However be sensible in the first instance and try to see how you can work around the issue - you probably can re using strong controls and proper planning -

For support / comments ask the HSE and others who have worked in such places

Remember also that individuals have the right not to put themselves at unnecessary risk

We have had problems with various people wanting to wear traditional/specific garments etc in food prep areas and in all cases the hygiene regs won through
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#3 Posted : 27 July 2007 10:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Shane J
How much is the contract worth?

Cause if it's not worth more than a personal injuries claim then I'd advise your company to seek work elsewhere.


Your employer can't force you to work in unsafe conditions.

Safety footwear is something i feel very strong about. I spent three days with a shard of metal in my toe. It's not pleasant.
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#4 Posted : 27 July 2007 10:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Brigham
Why should we tiptoe round this issue? If there is a risk of injury and PPE is the only solution, end of story. Better a small contract lost than the loss of a worker through a preventable injury and the potential for criminal and civil action.
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#5 Posted : 27 July 2007 10:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Garry Mcglaid
Ive always been interested in the outcome of any litigation that may come of head injuries sustained either on site or by a police officer wearing a turban as opposed to safety head wear.

Maybe im too cynical.
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#6 Posted : 27 July 2007 13:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By anon1234
If the risk assessment identifies the need for safety boots, then safety boots must be worn - if the mosque is not going to allow them, then you should decline the work on the grounds that the client is preventing you from taking the appropriate risk control measures
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#7 Posted : 27 July 2007 13:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stupendous Man
Quite simple - the client (mosque) cannot go tell the contractor not to wear PPE that has been deemed necessary.

Wear the safety boots.
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#8 Posted : 27 July 2007 13:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Donaldson
Have you asked the Mosque if overshoes are acceptable? We have found them acceptable when entering the Muslim prayer area of my University. We have also found overshoes acceptable within Muslims study bedrooms.

Our Maintenance staff have a stock of these, so they can always put on a new pair each time they enter.
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#9 Posted : 27 July 2007 13:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Anwar Afzal
If your allowed to wear slippers/flip flops etc then you are allowed to wear Safety Boots.

Usually as a mark of respect shoes are taken off in the prayer area by worshippers.

However if you are undertaking work at the mosque then so long as you have clean dust sheets to cover the prayer mats & work does not disrupt prayer times then you should be ok.

Take into consideration that between 14th Sept & 16th October it is the month of Ramadhan and there is likely to be more presence in the mosque.

Good Luck
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#10 Posted : 27 July 2007 14:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By jackw.
Hi as per john we have found that wearing overshoes has been acceptable to this client group. Also as has been said seek further advice from the HSE..But I would be very reluctant to let staff working in a construction environment wear flip flops..You are virtually guaranteeing a claim..

From a personal point of view As a former mech engineer, worked on numerous construction sites, i would not comply with this if i was a worker..risk serious injury loss of toes and the possible L/term health effects..NO WAY --you couldn't pay me enough.

Cheers.
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#11 Posted : 27 July 2007 21:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Seamus O Sullivan
Hi,
I dont have experience of working in a mosque but have experience of a famous singer insisting in a maintence persom(man) removing shoes and wearing some sort of slippers. Idea was to protect some marble floor. This was not acceptable and eventually this lady had to allow the man in with his shoes on( a few weeks later)

Servicing air conditioning units will require use of tools etc, and my view is that no one should endanger themselves by not wearing safety boots/shoes.
where are the condensers outside on the wall or on a rooftop? Why are the safety shoes not allowed, is it something to do with the floor or the religion, if because of the floor could the floor be protected with some material? and the safety shoes could then be used. I presume the work will take place in the UK.
seamus
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#12 Posted : 28 July 2007 13:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Leese
Seamus: Why are the safety shoes not allowed, is it something to do with the floor or the religion,

The whole point of the discussion is because of the requirement to remove shoes/footwear in a mosque ie it is a religious issue.

I don't know the answer from the information provided. Is it possible to do maintenance without removing the equipment, is it just a matter of removing some light covers and cleaning the equipment.

It would be interesting to get a comment from someone who has been in this actual situation.
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#13 Posted : 28 July 2007 14:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jay Joshi
It may be useful if you discussed this with someone in authority at the place of worship, i.e. the mosque, about the situation and how best to have safe working AND to the best of your ability, trying to take into consideration the sensitivities involved.

I am no expert in matter relating to mosques, but it appears that any footwear from "outside" that has been soiled by whatever we walk on public roads is conssidered "unclean"
You my get around the problem by getting new unsoiled safety shoes that are only worn in the mosques "clean areas" (charge the client for it!).

I am assuming that you may hav been told about the flip flops as worshippers remove their shoes and use the so called "clean" fip flops that are provided by the mosques or go bare-foot after the customary cleansing ritual.
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#14 Posted : 28 July 2007 14:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jay Joshi
Garry,

The Construction (Head Protection) Regulations 1989 require employers to provide suitable head protection for each employee involved in construction work, unless there is no foreseeable risk of injury to the head other than by falling. Sikhs wearing turbans are exempt from the requirement to wear head protection on a construction site by virtue of the Employment Act 1989. Sikhs who are not wearing a turban are not exempt from the regulations

Hence, employers and other persons in control of workers are relieved of their duties to a Sikh under regs 3, 4 and 5 provided that the Sikh is wearing a turban. In the same way, they are exempted from like duties under HSW Act ss.2, 3 and 4

However, the Personal Protective Equipment at Work Regulations 1992 apply equally to Sikh and other workers.

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#15 Posted : 29 July 2007 23:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Seamus O Sullivan
Thank you Peter for clarifying the point about the removal of the shoes, I was not aware of the exact reason for the removal of the shoes.

As stated I said I do not have experience in working in a Mosque.

I did study Sharia law as part of my law degree,and do now appreciate the reasons for the removal of the shoes.

But is it safe to work without safety shoes ? Considering the planned work I do not think so.

Best speak to the Imam (leader in the mosque)and explain the situation.

Seamus



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#16 Posted : 30 July 2007 12:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tabs
Alan, imagine your stance the next time someone didn't want to wear safety shoes and turned up instead in flip-flops!

I am religious, but even I would not expect divine intervention to save my toes from a falling aircon unit. The physical danger remains, and so does the law of the country.

Do you really think that any religious person has the right to override statutory duties here?

I like the brand new shoes being used exclusively within the Mosque and the client meeting the cost.
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