Posted By Howard
So what facilities will be in place?

We hired in a self contained unit which provided the basics ( Toilets, hot & Cold water, power/ drying room etc)until we up and running.
Satisfied the requirements of CDM.


H

Posted By Bob Youel

what facilities are you currently providing?

As its time that we moved into the 21st century

Time and again I have visited clients where their 'fab' facilities were only a moments walk away from their office yet they could not grasp the idea that their workers also needed facilities

Sounds like you have a proper coordinator

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Totally agree with other posters. There really is no need for any workers not to have suitable welfare facilities: preferably not including thunderboxes unless for a couple of days with 1 or 2 men.

This is the 21st century so why should we expect any operative to have to slum it on the job. It was only a couple of years ago I saw a housebuilder with 3 chemical closets at the back of the site for 50 operatives. They reckoned Tescos was close enough - 300m away. There was incidentally a garden shed for shelter and eating with a gas ring on a shelf.

Bob

Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
Disappointed with the overall response. It is quite obvious that to place any cabins on unprepared ground or to put cabins and toilets in areas where there is no hoarding is ridiculous. This is not what the regulation (and therefore a secondary law) is meant to enforce.Another reason why Safety gets a bad name.
Let me assure you all that working without welfare facilities, while normally totally unacceptable, is not the crime that it has been portrayed to be. If an ambulance driver arrives at the scene of a crash where bodies need pulling from wreckage, and he had to rely on you guys for advice, he would end up worrying more about his own welfare than the lives of others. Is that what you want?
c'mon lets get a common sense approach back into the industry.

Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
NO NO NO

Your first mistake is to class All CDM C's as one. Trust me they split into two categories, those that can do the job and those that cant.

Your second mistake is to surmise that the contractor has to plan for welfare units on site, regardless of the environment, the size of the site, the condition, the location and the logistical issue. Granted most sites can be surveyed early so that the welfare consideration is given maximum attention, but where this is not practical, the contractor must be allowed to consider other avenues. I will give you an example.
Some time ago I was doing a site audit. A pub restaurant had been demolished and the site was to be turned into student flats. There was an urgency to hoard up the site due to its location which meant bringing in a fence erector ASAP. He quite rightly asked about welfare and I explained to him that there was none on site, and it would actually be dangerous to place cabins or containers in the current environment. His lads basically had to fend for themselves, I think they used a local bookmakers. The Planning Supervisor was a bit of a smart alec and raised the alarm, stating all kinds of regulations. Unfortunately like many on this site he failed to understand regulation 1A Common Sense. Obviously nothing resulted from this non compliance.

Posted By Dave Wilson
CDMC is being a bit of a jobsworth, how else are you going to do this?

Day one am level ground pm put in welfare units!

What's the issue?

OR

Day 1 put in small portable units in street and erect fencing, employ security, lose units get vandalised, parking ticket, NRSWA, block road chapt 8 etc etc

Day 3 am level ground pm put in welfare!

Posted By Robert K Lewis
James

CDM will apply whatever - it covers all construction work.:-)

I find this thread troubling in that this was regarded as an over zealous CDM C pushing for something that was not possible. I see no reason for this supposition- we are after seeking that H&S is properly managed during all work not simply the jobs we think are large enough for it to apply.

Bob

Posted By Malcolm Hogarth
Hello all.

As usual there has been a variety of responses to this thread but I wonder whether most respondents have missed the point of the original query. Martin did not appear not to want to provide welfare facilities, the point is that construction work should not be allowed to start until welfare facilities are in place - all agreed.

However, the preparation of the ground and connection of services etc is classed as construction work so technically the first days work could be in breach of the welfare requirement.

Most of us can work around this but how can Martin if the client won't let him start?

There does not appear to be an ACOP addressing this point.

Malcolm

Posted By Malcolm Hogarth
So are we saying put in a temporary - portable facility of some kind prior to day one, then build the proper one?

Remind me what is the requirement for 'transient' sites?


Malcolm

Posted By Martyn Hendrie
I am now struggling to establish exacly what the problem is here.

Is this is a "Chicken and Egg" problem. (Can't start construction work until welfare in place; but putting int into place is construction work)or

Is this a reluctance to provide facilities? or,

A CDM co-ordinator who is looking for an inappropriate level of facility for the numbers of men on site during the initial phase. (i.e toilets etc. for the peak numbers when only a few will be on site initially)

Without understanding this it could go round and round and round.

Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
And lets not get confused by this relevant point. There is no law that requires an employer to provide over and above what is practicable. We all have contributed to a better and more comfortable welfare set up
(I too remember no toilets on site)and we should be applauded. However, it is obvious that nobody is going to post a comment on this forum regarding the correct set up, it is more to do with trying to iron out a problem relating to compliance with the regulation. I for one have no regard for people who wish to use welfare regs (CDM Regs) to kick up a fuss.
There are a thousand reasons why it would not be possible to set up and plan for the
" ideal " requirements under the regulations, and if it was my site I would insist on using every possible means to identify the correct needs.
What I definately would not do is worry over the thoughts and comments that the CDMC may have with regard to suitable arrangements, which begs the question which comes first, the requirements of the CDMC or the correct application of this secondary law.

Posted By Crim
Enabling works are allowed to take place prior to the CDM work commencing. Include the site set up in the enabling works and there is no problem. Thunder box can be delivered for use by those setting up the site, and local Cafes will have delivery service, but make it short term and ensure site is set up speedily.