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Posted By Shaun3967
I was wondering if anyone has a Template of a Designers/Architects Competence checks, with specific questions for them.
Kind Regards
Shaun
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
It is easy; you only need to ask one question:
Please describe and provide evidence to show how you meet the ‘core criteria for demonstration of competence’ as outlined in Appendix 4 of the HSC publication L144 ‘Managing health and safety in construction’?
I have seen the most incredible questionnaires which have nothing to do with the competence of designers.
I now look forward to this question!
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Posted By Shane J
Do you have an example as to what information an answer to that question should contain?
Can you provide a sample answer?
I ask this because that is the reply a designer will give.
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Posted By Shane J
@shaun
you have mail
I hope it's of some use.
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
See pages 109 to 113 in L144
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Posted By Shane J
You'd probably get a carbon copy response.
I'm not trying to be smart or disagree entirely with you're approach but i think some questions that encourage lateral thinking along with some friendly advice is the best way to a quick and useful response.
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Posted By Shaun3967
Shane
Thanks Very much. The Template is great.
Shaun
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Posted By The toecap
Dare i say 'can i have a copy please'?
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Posted By Shaun3967
Arran
can i ask what you do for a living?
Shaun
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Shaun
I think you should be wary of asking questions such as that. Arran has indicated that the criteria are very clearly set out such that competent co-ordinators should be able to develop the appropriate checklists. The real issue behind the competence checks is that they should not be overburdened by specific questions but asking how an organisation can demonstrate a proper system for managing H&S and how it manages competency..
Bob
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Posted By John Murphy
Shaun
Your are welcome to use the CHAS designer PQ and assessment standards at http://www.chas.gov.uk/downloadq.asp.These reflect the standards described in the core criteria and industry guidance. All we ask is if you use these please respect our IPR and acknowledge CHAS as the source. Thanks
John
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Posted By Shane J
@ Toecap
yeah ok.
Bear in mind it quotes Irish Legislation that will have to be edited to suit UK needs.
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Shaun,
I am frequently asked to comment on the questions within PQQs and in many cases the question is often wrong.
I would rather we were assessed against a written statement of competence based upon Appendix 4 of L144 than be assessed against questions which often fall outside the scope of ‘core criteria for demonstration of competence'.
I would like us to move away from the current culture for completing long questionnaires to one where we can actually demonstrate our competence.
In answer to your secondary question, I work within a large architectural practice.
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Bear in mind that almost all of the questions posed by the CHAS and other similar questionnaires are relatively easily asked by the single question "Do you have a verified and audited management system to a recognised standard or equivalent that manages H&S and competence?" If yes then virtually all other questions are irrelevant. Copies of audit reports are then all I need to see. If the answer is no then I take a deep breath and ask the questions, knowing that this is going to take some time:-)
Bob
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Posted By Shane J
Very good point Bob,
"Do you etc..."
If "no" turn to pages 2-5 and complete.
It covers the person asking the questions in a legal sense because if the answer is simply "yes" then unless the applicants are lying, in which case they will be liable, then you've carried out your role, ensuring competence.
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Shane J,
A person with the necessary competence to assess the competence of a design organisation does not need a series of questions when there is already evidence available for them to examine.
I just get frustrated by the repeated demands to answer questionnaires, when we have taken the trouble to ensure that we have the ‘core criteria for demonstration of competence' and we are happy to provide this. Surely any organisation without this in place is not competent.
I am sure a badly worded questionnaire will provide no legal protection.
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Posted By Melanie Fellows
I have a query regarding the appointment of a scaffolding company.
The scaffolding company have submitted their plans and design calculations, however, the CDMC will not accept them as they have not been checked by a chartered engineer.
The person(s) who completed the designs have a degree in design. Does this make them competent, or do we/ they have to get the calculations reviewed and approved by a chartered engineer? (I'm told the ball park cost for this is £2K)
Any help greatly appreciated.
Mel
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Melanie
This can be a tricky one and it does depend on the degree of trust in the scaffolders competence. If they are regarded as competent then their drawings and calculations ought to be trusted. Having said that I tend to check whether the methodology complies with either BS EN1211-1 for system scaffolds or TG20.05 for tube and fitting.
Some of the tell tale signs for suspicion are such as non designed loading bays, tie grid >4 metre, lift heights >2 metre etc.
You do have to wary as i have seen many short cuts, as also may this CDM-C.
Bob
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Posted By Shaun3967
Melanie
It also depends on whether your scaffold is a one off design for a special job then you need someone who really does know scaffold, Just remember the Milton Keynes scaffold which was passed by someone who didn't know about scaffolds. If you are in any doubt contact the National Association of Scaffolding Contractors and they will put you in touch with someone
Shaun
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Posted By Shaun3967
Arran
The reason i was asking was because you are saying assess you are one question but, i cant judge your competence on one question that would be commercial suicide. the appendix also states we do checks else where like previous jobs, if you keep design risk registers, so it doesn't necessarily mean just a questionnaire. I have also met Architects and designers who have fallen out with their relevant bodies and refuse to subscribe to their membership, which as you know the different levels of membership will be a good indicator of the knowledge they possess and the level of Health & Safety implications will have in their designs. Designers also fall into the category of interior and i have had a few on site who got their qualification from doing a 4 week course, how do i justify that man/woman on my site so surely one question . Not on one of my sites
Shaun
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Posted By Melanie Fellows
Thanks for your advice.
I will dig deeper into their qualifications/ experience/ affiliations!
The reason it seemed a bit strange is that they are the approved scaffolder for the site (not our choice), yet the CDMC doesn't accept their work!
It's a fair decision for the CDMC to make though - as my understanding is that it would be his head on the block should anything go wrong and the competencies hadn't been proven.
Thanks once again,
Mel
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Shaun,
I see many competence questionnaires where I am not sure that the organisation has even established the scope of competence, which they are seeking, and when I do query many of these, often I do not an answer because it appears that they do not understand what they are seeking.
If I turn this question around, what is the scope of design competence that your organisation is seeking and can we provide you with the evidence to show that we have necessary competence to meet this?
I just want to see the performance of the competence assessment process move on so that I am not necessarily spending my time answering lists of poor questions that do not really communicate the our process and systems that we have in place to manage our competence.
Remember one of the main objectives of the 2007 CDM regulations is to try and reduce bureaucracy!
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Posted By Shaun3967
Melanie
This is a perfect example of why the CDMC should be appointed from the start of the project and the need for the PQQ`s. It sounds as though your CDMC as been appointed late. It maybe, that he has dealt with the scaffold company from the past.
if the CDMC is not happy about the H&S aspect on site then someone needs to sit up and take note as this is when the accidents may occur, remember he/she is there because of the professional advice he/she brings to the table
Shaun
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Posted By Melanie Fellows
Couldn't agree more with you Shaun.
The funny thing is that in this instance the CDMC was there from the beginning, and the scaffolding company in question is the approved contractor for the site (who are also the CDMC's employer!).
It has raised a huge issue in the - now suspect - competencies of the scaffolding company, and now their approval will be very closely reviewed - with immediate effect.
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Posted By Shaun3967
Melanie
This is a real shame it is showing that some company has appointed someone to be CDMC and this person is being ignored in the advice that is being given.
On the other hand, it could be that the scaffolding arm of the business has bitten off more than it can chew and the CDMC is aware of their limitations and has voiced them. Without details it is hard to say.
A caveat must be given to the client as regard the goings on, the client needs to made aware of the scaffold company, because at the end of the day it is the client and the CDMC who end up in court.
Kind Regards
Shaun
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Posted By Melanie Fellows
Whilst I wouldn't say its all under control, the CDMC is definitely in control - all works are on hold - nothing is going to happen until he's happy with the design calcs, even if we have to change scaffolders.
I am happy to say that money is of no relevance - safety is (makes me feel all warm inside!!!)
Mel
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Posted By siobhan
Shane,
Could I possibly have a copy of the template for CDM-C competency.
Thanks
Siobhan
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Siobhan,
The only template that you need is laid out on pages 109 to 113 of the ACOP (L144) for the 2007 CDM Regulations.
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Posted By R Joe
Re Melanie’s query regarding the appointment of a scaffolding company, I was under the impresssion that the CDM-does not have to:
*Approve the appointment of other duty holders, although they give advice
*Approve or check designs, although be satisfied the hierarchy is addressed
*Approve or supervise the principal contractor’s construction phase plan
*Supervise or monitor work on site
*Approve principal contractor’s risk assessments or method statements
They should advise on management arrangements, not the detail.
Have I got this wrong?
RJ
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Posted By R Joe
Previous post should of course have read 'CDM-C'
RJ
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