Posted By PETER GANNAWAY
The fire safety order provides information on the type of system dependant on the construction of the building and its use.

Posted By James M Slater
Say for argument sakes one establishment is a domestic block of flats with 3 of the 6 flats being used as holiday letting accommodation. Another scenario being an office with a workshop and warehouse connected. The necessary fire fighting provisions and compartmentation is provided but no type of fire detection system.

Who would advise on the type installed and where would a client find such information? The installer says consult a fire risk assessor, the assessor states consult a fire engineer, a fire engineer states consult the installer. Client shouts for help!!

Posted By James M Slater
I agree. The client would then ask for rationale in each matter. Where is the best place to obtain this from? I have look at the RR(FS)O and from what I can see there is no basis for it. Are there any specifc British Standards, or is it simply just a matter of risk assessments. As this is likely to occur in every situation.

Also, it remains to be said who would be expected to suggest the type of system to be used.

Posted By ivorfire
Fire alarms for buildings are dealt with by Fire Detection and fire alarm systems for buildings Part 1 ~ Code of practice for system design, installation, commissioning and maintenace as BS 5839-1 2002 (has 2004 amendements.

In essence under section 2 design considerations it identfies that a fire alarm engineer can consider the risks present and design the system around either life safety (L systems) or property protection (P systems).

For dwellings these are subject to BS 5839 Part 6. Depending on the layout and other fire safety feature it is quite common to have a part 6 in each apartment to meet building regulations, and part 1 systems in the common parts or non domestic parts, as detection is required for activation of automatic opening ventilation, bring lifts to ground floor etc.

If there are more communial areas e.g. meeting room(s) in a block of flats or sheltered housing complex then part 1 fire alarm would be extended to any shared facilty for example laundry.

So in essence a fire alarm engineer can give an idea / design a system.

The other group is the authority that enforcers any fire legislation for the type of building. In the main this would be fire service, unless its where Housing Act 2004 applies, when it will be LA Enviromental Health for the domestic parts and Fire service for common parts.

To be accurate, it may also involve Building Regulation body, as any new fire alarms system may fall into Part P of building regulations.So it is likely building control may also have an interest.

Deciding on the type of system would be normally undertaken via the fire risk assessment route (as high lighted above) but determining if automatic fire detection is needed for fire engineering package, fire protection e.g smoke control or early warning to maximise escape time depending on occupants etc.
If nothing applies, then it may be a manual break glass sytem is all the is needed, perhaps say the factory / warehouse example.

All the FSO guides makes reference back to the BS, so I would suggest this is the most logical place to start. Annex A also gives some general guidance for various generic risks.

Hope this helps.

Posted By Ashley Wood
James, as others have stated the fire risk assessment would identify the need for a detection system. However, this depends upon the level of experience of the assessor. The assessor needs to evaluate many things including number of lives at risk, ease of evacuation, escape routes and final exits available, fire load (in cases of warehouses and workshops), building integrity etc etc.

You asked who would normally decide what is to be installed? In the 'good old days' the fire officer would have stated within his/her certificate the level of protection, not now as the certification scheme does not exist. If it was a high hazard new build then the fire service would be involved and they would make recommendations or detail requirements. Building control also get involved if it is a new build or a refurb/extension. They use what is known as approved document B, this is available free to down load and has useful information regarding what should be installed.

Some people have mentioned speaking with an alarm company, they will obviously say 'yes, you need a fire detection system'. I am surprised that your assessor did not make recommendations, I am even more surprised that the fire engineering consultant could not make recommendations!

In a 'nut shell' if the assessor is a competent and experienced person he/she should be capable of advising you. If not, get one that can! Same goes for the engineer.