Posted By David S
Your thoughts please. I'll try and keep it short.

A contractor carries out repairs/refurbishments under a maintenance agreement with a housing association. The HA provides to the contractor a copy of their asbestos register which includes details of all of their properties including those not covered within the maintenance agreement (and nothing to do with the contractor). When the HA raises a request for repair works on a property they expect the contractor to search through the (extensive) register to determine whether asbestos has been identified as being present. They put on their job request 'Asbestos may be present'. I know the asbestos regs do not apply to domestic properties but some of the premises have communal areas.

The question is - If the register shows asbestos to be on the premises have they a responsibility to inform the contractor of the fact or is it sufficient just to supply a copy of the register.

Thanks for any input

David S

Posted By Dave Wilson
They have a duty to inform the contractor (Reg 4)

Reg 5 also says that no employer will undertake any work which is likely to disturb the building fabric (paraphrase!)unless he has ascertained that asbestos is or is not present.

If he cannot 'positively' do this then he MUST ASSUME that asbestos is present and also the worst type eg Blue/Brown.

A general statement that "asbestos may be present' is not acceptable is a QUOTE from the HSE.

Posted By ddraigice
The duty to manage is just that - to manage and NOT to just have a survey done.

The duty is in 4 main parts. The survey is the first part. Then its:
1. Assessing the risk:
Where the assessment/survey has identified the fact that asbestos is or is liable to be present, a determination of the risk of exposure from that asbestos is made. This assessment should take into account the condition of the asbestos and whether it may be damaged or disturbed by maintenance or any other activity.

2. Managing the risk - Decisions about how to manage the risks must be recorded and kept up to date. Copies of the records should be available on site for the life of the premises and available to those who require them.

3. Monitoring the Risk
Finally, the areas where ACM’s are present should be inspected periodically to check for deterioration or damage.

If there's a subsequent problem - i.e. disturbed ACM's by a contractor it is HSE's policy to track back to the client to see if reg 4 has been complied with. It sounds like in this case it is not.

And as stated before, the client is not a domestic client (even though the premises may be) and so the ACM's need to be managed in ALL parts of the buildings.

Posted By David S
Thanks for those comments

AIB

The register is on a computerised database which is not readily available to maintenance operatives and would be a very heavy document if printed as hard copy. It also contains a lot of irrelevant information. I can see this as a discouragement to the operatives to search the register.

Dave Wilson

A general statement that "asbestos may be present' is not acceptable is a QUOTE from the HSE.

Where can I find this quote please, Dave

DD

My interpretation of the regs ( and that of our training consultants) is that only the communal areas of domestic properties e.g. lifts, stairwells, corridors etc come within the regs. The actual living areas fall outside the regs.
Can you point me somewhere where it clarifies this point please.

Thanks for all your inputs

Posted By ddraigice
Dave,

Answering your initial question fully (rather than alluding to it in my last post!) I would say that the HA has not complied with CAR 06 just by passing along an asbestos register - unless that register is more than just a list of places and the ACM's.

What they need to do is tell the contractor exactly where it is, what it is, its condition etc.etc. They should have this anyway in an asbestos management plan - of which the register is only part. It is this should be provided to the contractor (see below).

The duty under CAR 06, is as has been correctly identified, only applicable to landlords for shared, communal areas. However, that is only the direct duty of CAR 06. Other duties still apply to the private areas UNLESS the person who arranges for work to be done is a private resident. Therefore, if the landlord, LA, HA or insurance company arranges for maintenance or refurb to be done there is a duty under HSW and other legislation, including CDM.

So there is a general duty under section 3 of the HSW Act and a duty under regulation 10 of CDM to pass information along to any contractor - irrespective of whether it is CDM notifiable.

Unless there is a contractual arrangement with the maintenance company - they have no duties under reg 4 of CAR06 but they should be provided with:
"..information on the location and condition of ACM's where this will affect their work".(*Car 06 ACOP para 112).

This information should come from the management plan and this should be available to every person liable to disturb it -including emergency services (reg 9 (c)(1)and(2))

So that is a specific "You shall". Providing the survey findings is not the same as providing the risk assessment detailing how the ACM's are to be controlled.

Both would be liable for any breach, though - as Dave has pointed out.

Posted By David S
Thanks for all your responses - really appreciate it.

David S

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Dave has raised the issue of the interface between CAR and CDM07. All maintenance and refurbishment work is, in this context of work, construction work and as such the information requirements of CDM support those of CAR wherever work is done - whether common areas or privately occupied. They also apply to ALL work whether notifiable or not.

What I cannot see or hear in the original posting is the management arrangements for the asbestos - it appears to be simply a handing over of a register. I am also concerned the the HA has not made the appropriate investigation of the awareness training for all the operatives working in these premises. A failure on this point leads to a potential breach of regulation 4 CDM07 - Competence.

The supply of the database in itself is a good step but the HA does need to ensure that the contractors do have a system for disseminating the information to operatives and that it is properly implemented.

Bob