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Posted By Lindsey
I have recently found out that FLT / Counter balance drivers within the business have not received any kind of refresher training in over 10 years.
On questioning I have been advised that there is no legislation to say that a FLT / counter balance driver licence expires.
I am aware that under LOLER and PUWER it is incorrect be not providing what would be industry standard in providing refresher training every 3 to 5 years.
Could someone advise
All comments greatfully appreciated
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Posted By John A Wright
Lindsay,
The LOLER regulation itself may not actually say what you need, but I expect the Code of Practice does. I don't have it but for fork lift trucks see the FLT driver training ACoP in booklet L117, OC 790/16 on the ACoP, HSG6 "Safety in working with lift trucks", which can be purchased on-line at HSE Books.
Although the ACoP is not a regulation, I believe in prosecutions it will be held as evidence against the defendant if he has not followed its guidance.
After 10 years a driver's vision and physical health may have deteriorated such that he is unsuitable to drive an FLT, so checks and refresher training is advisable.
John W
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Posted By PeterL
Hi All,
Just to throw a spanner in the works, although it is good practice to have drivers of FLT's trained and refresher trained, as needed, there is no regulatory or statutory requirement for this and therefore if the employer can prove competence another way (i.e. 20 years use of FLT's with no accidents, adequate operational procedures, suitable segregation measures) the courts may decide the employer has done all that is reasonably practicable to ensure the safe use of FLT's.
Cheers Pete
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Posted By Sean Fraser
Peter,
Having looked into this topic myself in the not-too-distant past, I agree with you.
As in all things, your approach to this needs to be considered as part of a balanced risk assessment.
How many people are involved? What kind of environment are they operating in? How often are they using the equipment? Is it the same piece of kit every time or a range of different items? What is the actual activity, how far / high / difficult to access is it? And as pointed out, what age profile are we looking at.
It was interesting when I researched this previously that the neither the HSE nor the representative trade bodies would nail their colours firmly to any mast - it's already been mentioned that the range for recommended refreshers is between 3-5 years. There had at one point been an agreeement in the offing, but it all fell apart and now everyone just does their own thing.
The main consideration for you however has to be how important it is to you, as an organisation, to have formal re-validation of skills. Note that you could even do it yourselves, although unless you have a qualification as an FLT trainer the question of competence to adequately assess may arise.
Also, do you have any past records of safety failures involving FLTs? That can make the case for you.
Unfortunately this, like many other things in the wonderful world of H&S, hasn't got a definitive answer. C'est la vie . . .
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Posted By Sally
What I've done in a similar situation is had an assessment of the drivers done by the local training company. Basically this was a set of challenges for each driver to complete and went down very well and was viewed as a bit of fun as well as identifying those who could benefit from some refresher training.
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Posted By Amanda
We had the same situation here, though they had not had refresher training in 5 years. I looked up the industry best practice and again it refers to risk assessment based on the hazards etc within the environment. We have now amended the policy to do refresher training on a tri-annual basis
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Posted By Merv Newman
We used to have the supervisor sit down every year and decide if they were going to sign-off for that truckie for another year. Obligatory retraining by a professional was every three years.
My original permit is 25 years old. Passed it again about 5 years ago (just for the fun. What consultant needs a FLT permit ?)
Found that lots of things had changed over the years (including Fork/Front-of-load heights)
Merv
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Posted By Steve
John W has a valid point.
I was quoted HSG6 by a HSE Inspector not too long ago and he advised that we should adhere (although he was referring to the 'medical' aspect of drivers)
CPCS cards only last 5 years. Might be a solution.
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Posted By Anthony Rocheford
I agree with the above responses with respect to current operators, where the assessment and evaluation of the risk and a history of their performance would determine your demand based on your legal responsibility to provide a safe place of work.
For new operators, a clause should be inserted in their contract of employment requiring the recertification or reassessment clause, which would then allow you to demand it.
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Posted By Pete48
And then on the other hand, you pass a basic test and can continue to drive your car, van, motor cycle for another 50, 60 70 years, if you are good at it that is!!
Can someone explain why do we need a formal refresher period for FLT?
Your systems should be monitoring this safety critical activity and if you determine a need for re-training you do it.
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Posted By Merv Newman
Driving licences are valid until you are 70 (?) After that there is a presumption that you are no longer compus mentis. (sorry, three goes to get the spelling right) or physically/visually fit.
Now, why should a 20 year old truckie presume (and why should his current or subsequent employers assume) that he is a brilliant, careful driver for the rest of his natural life ?
No way. Before he/she gets employed I want them tested by a competent person who will SIGN that they are safe. And re-tested regularly.
And "competent driver" does not necessarily mean a "safe driver"
And by the way, signing off a truckie means that you share responsibillity. He/she bends the racks then you pay 50%
Regulars may recognise that this is my same attitude to work permits. You sign off on hotwork and if it all burns down you get the pleasure of paying half the rebuild costs.
Merv
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