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Posted By Fornhelper
Hi all
Could anyone confirm if there is a limit to the number of client bedrooms in a 'fire compartment / sub compartment' in a residential care home.
A client's relative (unnamed) claimed at a recent meeting (I wasn't in attendance and no source of info identified!!) that there can only be a maximum of 8 bedrooms in a compartment - and I have been asked to establish if this is factual!! My immediate response was it isn't but don't want egg on my face :)
I can't find any guidance that points specifically to this number and I am working to guidance (Scottish) that points to a maximum area of 750 m2 but does not mention client numbers / bedrooms.
Any help appreciated.
Regards
FH
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Posted By stevehaigh
NORTHERN IRELAND HEALTH TECHNICAL MEMORANDUM (HTM 84)OFFERS GUIDANCE. The nature of the occupants (i.e.: elderly, frail, disabled, confused, etc) dictates evacuation from a compartment, plus the construction and design of the areas, together with existing parts of the building,
The speed of such an evacuation and the number of residents / occupants who can be evacuated to such areas is dependant upon the number of staff available at the time.
Therefore the number of resident beds within each compartment can be designed to possibly 10, allowing for a minimum of 2 or 3 staff awake at all times.It all depends on your management arrangements but it is usually around 8
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Posted By Chas
If my memory serves me right the current Building Regs App Doc B states that there should be no more than 10 bedrooms per compartment. You can download the Bldg Regs off the internet. Hope this helps
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Posted By Phillip
Was there any changes up in Scotland following the Rose Park Fire?
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Posted By jackw.
Hi, Scotland - maximum number of bedrooms in a zone in is 7. Check with local fire and rescue service for confirmation. This assumes correct standard of fire detection may be L1 or L2 dependant on number of residents more than 20 and 10 respectively.
Cheers.
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Posted By Fornhelper
Jack
Thanks for response but is there anywhere this is 'written down' that I can use for reference?.
I have already contacted 'Fire & Rescue' but got the usual 'non-committal' response i.e. "depends what your risk assessment says" that seems to be the norm since the new legislation was introduced.
Remember the good old days when they would give you advice???
FH
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Posted By jackw.
The Scottish office have issued a guidance note on the back of the new fire regulation re standards in Care Homes. Check Scottish office web site for "practical guidance in care homes". You will find (around page 46) reference to an standard example diagram if you look at that it clearly indicates 7 bedrooms rooms in the compartment.
Check the section on fire suppression systems (sprinklers), too. I think it may relax this standard were you have sprinklers installed. As my LA hasn't and doesn't intend to install these, except on new builds as this is now mandatory, I haven't looked that closely at that section.
Hope this helps.
Cheers.
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Posted By Fornhelper
Thanks Jack,
I've got the guidance and I see where you are coming from however whilst I appreciate this example depicts 7 bedrooms in a sub-compartment it, in my opinion, only demonstrates a typical layout in a 750m2 compartment.
If, for example, the larger bedrooms in the diagram were the same size as the smaller ones and it was a single storey premises without a stairwell then, potentially, up to 11 rooms could fit into this sub compartment (accepting that they meet Care Commission standards !!!) .
So in terms of 'area' it would comply with the guidance but I still can't source anything that definitively states the maximum number of bedrooms allowed!!!
So still looking for that definitive guidance :-)
FH
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Posted By Joe Doc
The written info you want is on page 25 of SHTM 84. If you need a copy let me know.
This provides details on the number of beds per compartment in relation to the numbers of waking night staff.
The new Scottish Fire Regs mentions that they replace other documents but not SHTM 84 as I understand it.
I believe SHTM 84 can still be used as guidance and in many circumstances would be used by fire safety officers as it is more specific.
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